"High stress" gameplay and solutions.

[Ade]

I'm unsure if I caused this thread from not wanting to resta all that much last night as fomarl as I prefer to mate/moon over resta/reverser. >_>"

I find it much more useful to glide divine j/z into sof/gif spam so you don't have to work as hard and "deplete your meseta" with charge/mates for zerk but also so you ck more easily. I find it lazy when all a fo does is resta spam as they aren't really contributing to the party in any meaningful way to weaken enemies efficiently. What good is extra hp if player has map/spawn memorization? There are times when resta spam is encouraged though like heat rooms where party zerks heavily or if it's a quest with densely packed enemy clusters such as bonus room of MSB or CCC (that usually shoot projectiles like belra) and it's understood HUs+RAs will be spamming zerk *mostly with dob/zerk arms/HS* so that j/z/sof isn't needed as the damage output far exceeds what a FO can do in those scenarios.

The argument that you shouldn't have to waste meseta on mates comes off as odd considering it costs more to buy fluids, so in a sense you expect the FO to pick up the tab. I don't really feel that this is your main concern behind this though considering there are more than enough meseta opportunities to be gained from picking up armors/junk and not to mention events usually end up passing out extra meseta, ticket meseta roulette prize, etc. If meseta was truly your concern, you would use HS/zerk vulcs/zerk arms over cvulcs/carms/BL and have some map/spawn memorization down to make that play style viable considering charge is what truly eats meseta.

In the OP you said you don't like dying, well setting mates to your dpad and being comfortable quickly pulling it out for a quicker/more reliable heal after your ck/combo is far more effective than relying on the startup time of resta as well as praying that the fo is in range to resta connect before your death. Like what if you need to SSS ck with HS vs zu but your up against a dense zu pack such as a cookie run? You want to be able to SSS ck then quickly trimate so you don't get intercepted by other zu. By the time resta would/could reach, you could possibly be dead either from it not connecting because of fo range, start up time, or fo was distracted doing something else. Eliminating the opportunity for death by utilizing your full tool set would ultimately prevent you from dying more often.

I think if you tried DF out ade, you would be far more understanding. DF is a very useful tool, but it's not the end all/be all sort of single item that you're making it out to be. There are plenty of opportunities where cvulc/lk38 can give a similar result if not better depending on scenario. A big reason why I play Hucast majority of the time is so that I can be self-sufficient and join w/e pub game without it feeling like a drag. I know during fiasco I tried sticking with fomarl but got irritated after first few days when the games would take too long. Players wouldn't ft, their multi-enemy damage output was weak, maybe they'd spam fs/sn whole game, things I expected from them being the FO weren't being met. It's much less of a hassle when I can just dob/lk/df/cvulc/ft and do the work myself with my only expectation of lvl 30 s/d. I've also noticed it's a lot less stressful playing like this for the less skilled players as their load management isn't nearly as demanding, thus they die less often considering the enemies are stunned/die too quickly for them to die and they're happy as the game goes quicker(if they do contribute heavily though then yea the game just flies by which is optimal).

Hope this helps, I read the whole thread to try to understand the other viewpoints too. You are a friendly person and good spirited but a bit stubborn with some of your view points, I think it could help if you explored other options/tools in game without being too quick to bash it.

I didn't read the whole post yet but no you did not cause anything don't worry. This was based on a conversation I had with another player after a perfectly good game. It was actually right after I found a PGF and was just talking about future DF use and the state of the game. Please don't worry

Edit: This isn't about exploring other options or tools. This is about ONE tool in the game that forces everyone else, even people who aren't using it, to play around their wishes. It's the only thing in the game that is even REMOTELY that disruptive. It's just too different from everything else in the game.

 

[dewdadash]

I didn't read the whole post yet but no you did not cause anything don't worry. This was based on a conversation I had with another player after a perfectly good game. It was actually right after I found a PGF and was just talking about future DF use and the state of the game. Please don't worry

Edit: This isn't about exploring other options or tools. This is about ONE tool in the game that forces everyone else, even people who aren't using it, to play around their wishes. It's the only thing in the game that is even REMOTELY that disruptive. It's just too different from everything else in the game.

I would appreciate if you would read the whole post ^^" I kind of figured you would understand after reading the whole thing, but I guess I have to directly point it out. If you explored the use of mapping mates to your dpad for your toolkit, all of your perceived issues would be solved. I should also add you should be doing this regardless of there being a DF user present, I know with your 45h hs to get the max mileage out of it you need to SSS(w/ s2 glitch) ck enemies which will often require the use of mates in tough scenarios.

Also you're making it sound like resta is everyone's wish when that isn't necessarily the case. Resta spam is also disruptive not only for DF but when players are trying to die->doll to regain traps. Considering resta is disruptive in those two scenarios and overuse is disruptive overall as it slows down the party, I'd argue that the use of resta is more disruptive than the usage of DF w/ or w/o the presence of a HU in party.

I wouldn't be opposed to admins allowing for a negate heal option but it would make the game easier thus lowering the skill ceiling. By having it like it is currently, people are more inclined to use mates which will then help them die less frequently rather than being dependent on external healing which in turn will make them a more skilled player.

 

[mt76907]

Oh god, another DF is ruining my PSO experience thread.

You have hundreds of PDs and complain about spending meseta on 10 trimates every run? It's really fucking hard to run out of mates in any quest anyway, especially when playing with what you would call 'meta players.' You've even already identified the problem in the very first post.

I became one of those gamers who piled up as many these items as I could and NEVER used them- save for outside the last boss or maybe the optional side bosses that are even HARDER than the last boss- and even THEN, I felt like I was doing something wrong.

This trained me to believe that, in a video game, if you're using consumables, you're doing something wrong and playing badly. This is hard wired into me from years of gaming. I even carried it into PSO.

Justify why this mindset takes priority over all others please.
Bear with me, this hoarding style of play you describe very closely resembles the 'stocking your bunker' critique that you've made in the past of people who enjoy playing efficiently.

I've said this before, but FIND PEOPLE WHO ENJOY THE SAME PLAYSTYLE YOU DO AND PLAY WITH THEM. You'll be way happier than now, where you just complain about how you played with other people and dislike their playstyle.

 

[RazakelKairo]

Personally, I prefer my pub playstyle to be accumilated through holding the team together by catching mistakes and adapting to them. I am not looking for the optimal play. If I want to do that, I'll find a dedicated team, just like how I would in any game I'd be looking to play in a competitive format.

Voicing concerns governs improvement but heres no reason to belittle anyone in a pub. This is PSO, not a MOBA.

 

[Knowl]

this sounds like a player problem not a game problem boys. play with people who resta if you want resta, play with people who DF if you want DF. pack it up, next

 

[VENOM]

I just find it ironic that ade made a thread saying players should not feel pressured to conform to a certain playstyle, yet he is calling out forces who don't conform to his

Edit: I feel like Ade is like the Russian intelligence, who interfere in order to cause division amongst players. No one actually cares as much on either side as you. Let people play the game and figure it out themselves.

 

[Ade]

I just find it ironic that ade made a thread saying players should not feel pressured to conform to a certain playstyle, yet he is calling out forces who don't conform to his

Edit: I feel like Ade is like the Russian intelligence, who interfere in order to cause division amongst players. No one actually cares as much on either side as you. Let people play the game and figure it out themselves.

That’s a huge exaggeration. Negating incoming healing would do the exact opposite of what you’re saying. There could still be FOs who never heal and that’s fine. I won’t enjoy playing with them, though.

Dew I did go back and read your whole post.

MT chill out. I see a lot of people disagree with me. I get that. It was hard to say that a game gives me anxiety. I am just mostly going to solo because I am tired of DF users feeling like they’re the party commander.

 

[cameron-]

how do you think others feel when you assume the ‘party commander’ role, whether that is telling people to shifta, to gather for dorphons, telling forces to stun mericarol spawns, telling forces that you will solo ep4 boss caves, telling people not to scare rappies..? I’ve seen you be far more bullish in pubs than any hucast i know.

sorry but the projection is off the charts here. the only person who really cares about how others play is you.

 

[Ade]

how do you think others feel when you assume the ‘party commander’ role, whether that is telling people to shifta, to gather for dorphons, telling forces to stun mericarol spawns, telling forces that you will solo ep4 boss caves, telling people not to scare rappies..? I’ve seen you be far more bullish in pubs than any hucast i know.

sorry but the projection is off the charts here. the only person who really cares about how others play is you.

Almost everything I do is to help people in extremely specific instances. I'm not saying things like "DON'T RESTA FOR THE WHOLE GAME KTHX." There's a HUGE difference. This is a bullshit comparison.

 

[cameron-]

and as i’ve said countless times, no one is saying don’t resta for the whole game in pubs.

Literally where we are at right now:

 

[Ade]

No. That is exactly what we are taking about. A massive decrease in party support for all (or the majority of) the game because someone wants to play with how HP. That is EXACTLY what this is about.

This is way different than helping with one tough spawn or reminding the FO to cast SD every 6 minutes. They’re not even in the same ballpark.

 

[cameron-]

i’m a little sick to my stomach with how patiently and generously this community treats you and how you take advantage of it over and over and over

 

[Ade]

I'm not trying to take advantage of anything. We're talking about PSO and our experiences with it. Clearly a lot of people disagree with me so I'll just play alone most of the time. I think about the game a lot and how it's played and where it's going. I care about it. This is a thread on the message board. Nobody has to participate in it. This isn't some "drain" on people. (Maybe it is on you, and I'm sorry if that's the case.)

And yes, I do love that this community is patient and generous when people post / talk about the game, INCLUDING things they're not happy about. The mods here are awesome because they let discussions play out instead of being like Scht's Lee, who just says, "Shut up, Ade" and locks all my topics. I'm very thankful for that.

All I know is, ever since I got done hunting SJS and started playing with people again, almost every pub style game has involved DF users and limited healing, and I have not been enjoying myself. The few times I've played FO in a party I've been asked not to heal. I don't like the direction the game is going and that's why I talked about it. This is an okay thing to do.

Edit: What makes this ALL THE MORE REASONABLE is that there was a hypothetical fix for this proposed years ago that was an idea of a SERVER ADMIN, not me.

My perception of this is: Myself, who wants to see a fix that would LITERALLY allow everyone in a party to play how they want without having to impose on others versus people who, for some reason, don't want that. I am absolutely bewildered by people who don't want this.

 

[Ryan]

My perception of this is: Myself, who wants to see a fix that would LITERALLY allow everyone in a party to play how they want without having to impose on others versus people who, for some reason, don't want that. I am absolutely bewildered by people who don't want this.

Your perception is warped.

This thread has had 23 people post in it, you included, of whom ONE has disagreed with the idea of a Negate/Heal unit.

I appreciate this thread and the discussions spawned from it (save for a bit of off-topic back-and-forth about whether or not someone truly believes in their heart that a "useless" Ranger is annoying or whatever), but Cameron's point is solid. Recently, I've seen you bring up things that need to be fixed, what, three times, because you kept running into extremely personal and Ade-specific inconveniences? First it was level 200s not getting any bonuses (coincidentally while you were hunting SJS), then "why is MAS so slow" (while unsealing SJS), and now that you've evidently moved on from that, it's time for something else that's supposedly a huge, community-breaking problem that affects ~70% of games, except that it verifiably does not.

Like you said, this isn't Schthack, I'm not Lee, and this isn't a drain on me. What you're doing here comes off as bad faith to me, though - it's true that Negate/Heal is a good, reasonable idea, proposed by multiple staff members at multiple points, but that doesn't mean you're right about DF ruining the game. Staff members wanting to give players more options for how they personally want to play doesn't mean one of those options is better or worse, either gameplay-wise or community-wise. It's quite the opposite - DFs are cool and Resta is cool, so it'd be cool if we could give HUcasts and FOs alike the ability to have both at once in a party.

Whether or not it's viable to implement is obviously not something that warrants discussion, but that was the only hurdle when we were considering it. I think it's pretty safe to say that if it turns out it can be done, we'll do it.

 

[No Hit]

almost every pub style game has involved DF users and limited healing

To be fair, in my case you actually went out of your way to join the game that I hosted that was a reserved party. So at least in one instance you were willingly putting yourself into a party that you were fully aware would play like this and didn't seem to mind at all the entire game aside from calling me a cheeser for using a scape in mines to retrap.

In pubs I rarely come across anyone who has an issue with the way I play. Those rare situations where someone does it's always because of a misunderstanding that gets solved with communication. There's not much more for me to say because all of this works out pretty well in-game with all the new players I meet. A select few who I rarely play with (in one case NEVER played with) complain to me about it in DMs or belittle the way I play and can be downright toxic.

for some reason, don't want that

I can at least explain why I don't want a no healing command, as I don't know everyone else's reasonings.

I enjoy the team aspect of this game, it's actually why I got into it. I have a competitive team game background that I did pretty well in, and I know of others on here who also come from a similar background who have done even better. I think what we value in this game is the social and team play aspect. Communication is KEY to getting a more expected outcome from your teammates and the results you desire. This is another reason why I got so invested into Teamz, as it was as close to a competitive team game that PSO can ever get to. Of course I know that pubs are not Teamz, but I wanted to give you context as to what I enjoy most about this game.

What I enjoy is overcoming the challenge of working around others and their playstyles through communication and improvement. I know going into any pub game that people aren't going to be aware of dark flow's mechanics, or in general just most mechanics in this game. I go in fully willing to teach these players how the game works on all levels of play, whether its DF or just figuring out how to menu walk or handle certain enemies. This is where I get most of my fulfillment in pubs because its fun seeing people learning something new and becoming proud of their own results.

edit: I forgot to reach a concluding point I think... but I was getting at teaching people how to work around DF and use self-resta. Skills which will become obsolete with the introduction of that command.

 

[Ade]

Thanks, @Ryan

I admit I biffed it on the MAS discussion. I didn't realize that was the intention of the quest maker. I thought it was some sort of penalty that the devs did to force people to wait for spawns. I did assume the worst and that was bad faith, you are correct.

Regarding the no bonus during XP week for Lv. 200's: It would be nice to see something but I've made peace with it.

I'm glad that it's okay to talk about these things.

I'm glad that lots of people want a way to negate incoming healing. And I'm glad this got people talking about it again. Apparently there was completely wrong misinformation regarding the devs not wanting this, and this thread was an opportunity to get that cleared up. That is a POSITIVE thing.

Hopefully this gets the topic back on the radar. If not, at least maybe I found a few people to play with who think like me. (Another positive.)

 

[Ade]

To be fair, in my case you actually went out of your way to join the game that I hosted that was a reserved party. So at least in one instance you were willingly putting yourself into a party that you were fully aware would play like this and didn't seem to mind at all the entire game aside from calling me a cheeser for using a scape in mines to retrap.

In pubs I rarely come across anyone who has an issue with the way I play. Those rare situations where someone does it's always because of a misunderstanding that gets solved with communication. There's not much more for me to say because all of this works out pretty well in-game with all the new players I meet. A select few who I rarely play with (in one case NEVER played with) complain to me about it in DMs or belittle the way I play and can be downright toxic.


I can at least explain why I don't want a no healing command, as I don't know everyone else's reasonings.

I enjoy the team aspect of this game, it's actually why I got into it. I have a competitive team game background that I did pretty well in, and I know of others on here who also come from a similar background who have done even better. I think what we value in this game is the social and team play aspect. Communication is KEY to getting a more expected outcome from your teammates and the results you desire. This is another reason why I got so invested into Teamz, as it was as close to a competitive team game that PSO can ever get to. Of course I know that pubs are not Teamz, but I wanted to give you context as to what I enjoy most about this game.

What I enjoy is overcoming the challenge of working around others and their playstyles through communication and improvement. I know going into any pub game that people aren't going to be aware of dark flow's mechanics, or in general just most mechanics in this game. I go in fully willing to teach these players how the game works on all levels of play, whether its DF or just figuring out how to menu walk or handle certain enemies. This is where I get most of my fulfillment in pubs because its fun seeing people learning something new and becoming proud of their own results.

edit: I forgot to reach a concluding point I think... but I was getting at teaching people how to work around DF and use self-resta. Skills which will become obsolete with the introduction of that command.

@No Hit : I enjoy the team aspect of this game too. Which is unfortunate, because I find myself wanting to partake in it less and less. I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your post.

I'm not upset about our game. I always play better when I'm with you. But that's the thing, I have to TRY to be better, and I like to play PSO as a chill experience. Always having to worry about my HP is not chill, and because I'm having to do that more and more often, I am enjoying the game LESS. That's really all there is to it. I don't like how the dynamics of pub games have shifted from chill experiences to people thinking they're gonna be MLG gamers someday and want to be "balls to the wall" tryhard at every turn. It's just not fun.

@Ryan You keep on insisting this isn't happening most of the time, and maybe part of this is because I don't just join any random game. I usually join open games with people I SOMEWHAT know. I suppose if I joined a random Lv. 80 their first time in Ult Forest, they probably wouldn't be using a DF, for example. However, in nearly EVERY random TTF I join (I usually do one or two TTFs per day just for fun), someone is using DF almost EVERY time.

The last super tryhard thing I did on a game was beating Bloodborne on New Game + (including the explansion) and it was hard as hell. I thought to myself, "This sucks. I play video games for fun. Why am I doing this to myself?" I used to feel like I had to beat every game on the hardest difficulty and I'm just getting too old and too busy IRL to put up with frustrating bullshit, so I try to use games as a time to relax now.

 

[cameron-]

in case you missed it and for the people in the back the thing that is stressing ade out so much he can’t enjoy pso is having to use dimates and trimates

 

[Ade]

in case you missed it and for the people in the back the thing that is stressing ade out so much he can’t enjoy pso is having to use dimates and trimates

That's such an over-simplification. It's that the general flow of the game has been upended by a single weapon. In most video games, some pretty general rules are:

1. Keep your character healthy and keep your health bar full (to a reasonable extent), and
2. Help others in any way you can

Dark Flow is such an unconventional weapon that it requires you to run around at near-death HP to get its full use, and because of the area effect of healing on this game, it means that FOs can't heal any longer. This means that I have to play way more carefully than before. If we're running MAE or something with Falz at the end, I could end up needing 5 to 7 Trimates. Once the Trimates are gone, I'm into Star Atomizers ($5k a pop). I don't carry Dimates anymore because I have to carry so many weapons now to be "viable" and the inventory capacity of the player is INEXCUSABLY LOW on this game (that's an issue for another day).

So no, it's not just about using Dimates and Trimates. it's about the entire game feeling different and constantly having to pay attention instead of just having fun and joking around with friends while I play. It sucks now.

The game is LESS FUN to play when people take it so goddam seriously. I realize the irony that I am now the one taking it seriously, but that's because I was just trying to be peaceful and have fun, and a bunch of goddam tryhards had to bring their tactics into public games and change the entire way the game is played.

 

[Bonesy]

oh no