"High stress" gameplay and solutions.

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Figure4 said:
I'm not saying they're not possible. I'm saying it helps A LOT.
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Yes and I also just explained why it's not lazy even in that case. Gifoie is super important in those areas, so it's totally understandable if they can't get a resta off in time. I also explained that using communication will help A LOT, instead of just calling these players lazy on forums.
 
No Hit said:
communication will help A LOT, instead of just calling these players lazy on forums.
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Shouldn't be required.

FO's heal. That's a thing.

Expecting manners is like...

"Hello my FO friend, may I politely ask that you may resta me occasionally? I mean if it doesn't put you out too much. I wouldn't want to bother you. Thank you kindly in advance"

Or maybe they could just play their damn role and heal.

You ever play RAcast in a game where the FO politely asks you to use traps?
 
last time i got resta'd (2018), I didn't sleep well for a week.

edit: didn't read every post in the last page but imo fo healing is more lazy than not. there's almost always a more effective way to contribute to your group! But do you whatever you want !
 
Arsuru said:
Pretty sure I'm actually not agreeing
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You said that their role is to support.

We Agree.

You said that it doesn't mean healing all the time. And that a good FO knows WHEN to heal.

We agree.

I don't understand what you think you're arguing against.
 
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Maybe I'm arguing against poor wording. It sounds more like you agree with me, but you frame with an air that assumes I'm agreeing with you and your different or lack of use of words.

How you say things. ™
 
I am okay with DF, since it is part of the game and technically "vanilla"... but, I think that if there's a problem here, it has to do more with some people expecting casual/public games with random people to play out like a coordinated time attack game. They're completely different things and what's optimal for one might not be for the other. As an example, I've seen a lot of games go a lot more smoothly/quickly (because of less deaths) *after* someone stops using DF, when a FO can Resta freely. Yes, people can/should use mates, but when you join a game with random people, there are going to be people with varying levels gear, mat use, level, experience, and a bunch of other things.

I've noticed the same thing with Jellen use, because most people who consider themselves to be "good" at FO don't want to use this because of DMC. And when I'm in games who are clearly full of experienced/high level players, I try not to use it as a FO. But in other games with lower levels, I've seen a game go from extremely hectic and full of death, to smooth and painless, just because I started casting Jellen at the start of every group.

I love watching time attack stuff, because it's impressive to see, but for everyday games I've personally never considered things like constant/high DF use, or no Resta/Jellen to be optimal. But I am also fine with people playing how they want. :)
 
Alisaryn said:
I am okay with DF, since it is part of the game and technically "vanilla"... but, I think that if there's a problem here, it has to do more with some people expecting casual/public games with random people to play out like a coordinated time attack game. They're completely different things and what's optimal for one might not be for the other. As an example, I've seen a lot of games go a lot more smoothly/quickly (because of less deaths) *after* someone stops using DF, when a FO can Resta freely. Yes, people can/should use mates, but when you join a game with random people, there are going to be people with varying levels gear, mat use, level, experience, and a bunch of other things.

I've noticed the same thing with Jellen use, because most people who consider themselves to be "good" at FO don't want to use this because of DMC. And when I'm in games who are clearly full of experienced/high level players, I try not to use it as a FO. But in other games with lower levels, I've seen a game go from extremely hectic and full of death, to smooth and painless, just because I started casting Jellen at the start of every group.

I love watching time attack stuff, because it's impressive to see, but for everyday games I've personally never considered things like constant/high DF use, or no Resta/Jellen to be optimal. But I am also fine with people playing how they want. :)
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I really like this attitude.

I've always figured that with decently optimized play that you can crush the entire game. To do what TAers do, you have to be on "hyper awareness" mode the whole time. You're focusing way harder for a diminishing return. I find it mentally exhausting to play that way. I feel like DF users are forcing me to play this way the entire time; always having to keep an eye on my HP bar...

And yes, I found a PGF last night and I want to hunt some DF Caliburs and use DF SOMETIMES, but I don't want it to dominate the way everyone else plays, and it really does. There's no disputing this whatsoever.

I like hard games, don't get me wrong. I just don't want PSO to be where the bulk of my video game challenge comes from.

I think of DF on the same level as if Mega Mushrooms were obtainable in every single stage of New Super Mario Bros. (They are way later in the game, but I mean early on.) The mechanics of the Mega Mushroom are SO VASTLY DIFFERENT from everything else in the game that it sorta invalidates everything else and ruins the game. I feel like this is what DF has done to PSO.
 
VENOM said:
Is it really my loss? I don't play pso to hold player's hands :wacko:
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I want to be damn clear that I don't need hand holding. I CAN play the game in tryhard mode. I just don't like it.

It's like this:


"I said I never had much use for one. I never said I didn't know how to use it."

:eek:
 
"To do what TAers do, you have to be on "hyper awareness" mode the whole time. You're focusing way harder for a diminishing return. I find it mentally exhausting to play that way. I feel like DF users are forcing me to play this way the entire time; always having to keep an eye on my HP bar..."
I think you're overstating how "hard" PSO TA is. Not all runs are the same but 4P especially you can pretty much turn your brain off after the planning is made and just repeat it until the luck lines up in drone mode. TA is significantly easier than pretty much any other games speed running.
 
Wilson said:
"To do what TAers do, you have to be on "hyper awareness" mode the whole time. You're focusing way harder for a diminishing return. I find it mentally exhausting to play that way. I feel like DF users are forcing me to play this way the entire time; always having to keep an eye on my HP bar..."
I think you're overstating how "hard" PSO TA is. Not all runs are the same but 4P especially you can pretty much turn your brain off after the planning is made and just repeat it until the luck lines up in drone mode. TA is significantly easier than pretty much any other games speed running.
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Fair enough. Then I would counterpoint that "tryhard mode" in regular play (where people in a regular game try to act like they're TA) can go very, very wrong when FOs feel like they can't heal because of a DF user. Probably far worse than coordinated TA. I like that you prompted me to clarify this.

If we added a way for people to ignore incoming healing, it would not decrease what the best possible time is for any run. The perfect run is always going to exist with theoretical flawless performance. The ability to ignore incoming healing allows for VERY IMPERFECT people to enjoy the game in more than one way; instead of the gameplay narrative focusing around ONE piece of equipment that inconveniences everyone else.
 
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I really appreciate that some GMs have shared their points of view on this and didn't just lock it or whatever. Some tension aside, I feel like some good ideas came out of this discussion. I hope the server devs continue to consider various playstyles when making content / updates. Thanks, everyone. I wish Matt would weigh in, but I don't think he likes me very much.
 
I propose we modify Resta so that it does damage instead of healing, then provide a special unit that allows a user to be healed by the Resta.
thank u, thank u
 
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It's very simple. A player that plays with low HP for DF should always go into a public game (Namely with people they don't know) expecting to be healed and/or see regular Jellen usage. Upon playing and finding out that the group does follow their comfortable method of play, expectations are exceeded and not the other way around. Meta hunters going into public games the other way around and getting stressed about it pretty much deserve it since they're kind of asking for it. A FO player (Or other fleshies) should never have to feel stressed about playing public games, ever.
 
Sassmeister said:
It's very simple. A player that plays with low HP for DF should always go into a public game (Namely with people they don't know) expecting to be healed and/or see regular Jellen usage. Upon playing and finding out that the group does follow their comfortable method of play, expectations are exceeded and not the other way around. Meta hunters going into public games the other way around and getting stressed about it pretty much deserve it since they're kind of asking for it. A FO player (Or other fleshies) should never have to feel stressed about playing public games, ever.
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I really like that, Sass. If an actual in-game solution isn't implemented, I'm going to take this mindset. I'm taking my regular gameplay back. The minority does not get to boss the majority around.
 
I'm unsure if I caused this thread from not wanting to resta all that much last night as fomarl as I prefer to mate/moon over resta/reverser. >_>"

I find it much more useful to glide divine j/z into sof/gif spam so you don't have to work as hard and "deplete your meseta" with charge/mates for zerk but also so you ck more easily. I find it lazy when all a fo does is resta spam as they aren't really contributing to the party in any meaningful way to weaken enemies efficiently. What good is extra hp if player has map/spawn memorization? There are times when resta spam is encouraged though like heat rooms where party zerks heavily or if it's a quest with densely packed enemy clusters such as bonus room of MSB or CCC (that usually shoot projectiles like belra) and it's understood HUs+RAs will be spamming zerk *mostly with dob/zerk arms/HS* so that j/z/sof isn't needed as the damage output far exceeds what a FO can do in those scenarios.

The argument that you shouldn't have to waste meseta on mates comes off as odd considering it costs more to buy fluids, so in a sense you expect the FO to pick up the tab. I don't really feel that this is your main concern behind this though considering there are more than enough meseta opportunities to be gained from picking up armors/junk and not to mention events usually end up passing out extra meseta, ticket meseta roulette prize, etc. If meseta was truly your concern, you would use HS/zerk vulcs/zerk arms over cvulcs/carms/BL and have some map/spawn memorization down to make that play style viable considering charge is what truly eats meseta.

In the OP you said you don't like dying, well setting mates to your dpad and being comfortable quickly pulling it out for a quicker/more reliable heal after your ck/combo is far more effective than relying on the startup time of resta as well as praying that the fo is in range to resta connect before your death. Like what if you need to SSS ck with HS vs zu but your up against a dense zu pack such as a cookie run? You want to be able to SSS ck then quickly trimate so you don't get intercepted by other zu. By the time resta would/could reach, you could possibly be dead either from it not connecting because of fo range, start up time, or fo was distracted doing something else. Eliminating the opportunity for death by utilizing your full tool set would ultimately prevent you from dying more often.

I think if you tried DF out ade, you would be far more understanding. DF is a very useful tool, but it's not the end all/be all sort of single item that you're making it out to be. There are plenty of opportunities where cvulc/lk38 can give a similar result if not better depending on scenario. A big reason why I play Hucast majority of the time is so that I can be self-sufficient and join w/e pub game without it feeling like a drag. I know during fiasco I tried sticking with fomarl but got irritated after first few days when the games would take too long. Players wouldn't ft, their multi-enemy damage output was weak, maybe they'd spam fs/sn whole game, things I expected from them being the FO weren't being met. It's much less of a hassle when I can just dob/lk/df/cvulc/ft and do the work myself with my only expectation of lvl 30 s/d. I've also noticed it's a lot less stressful playing like this for the less skilled players as their load management isn't nearly as demanding, thus they die less often considering the enemies are stunned/die too quickly for them to die and they're happy as the game goes quicker(if they do contribute heavily though then yea the game just flies by which is optimal).

Hope this helps, I read the whole thread to try to understand the other viewpoints too. You are a friendly person and good spirited but a bit stubborn with some of your view points, I think it could help if you explored other options/tools in game without being too quick to bash it.
 
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