Ade
;3
If somebody isn't playing the game the way you'd like just blacklist them and move on.
I’m not sure this is a great alternative. I’m glad that not many ppl do this.
"High stress" gameplay and solutions.
- Thread starter Ade
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I’m not sure this is a great alternative. I’m glad that not many ppl do this.
Ade
;3
Play PSO2, no DF there
I played PSO2 JP for years and had every class at max level. For Mining Base Defense i was consistently # 1 or # 2 on the DPS readout at the end of the quest with my FO / Techer. The JP players I gamed with called me Gaijin Thunder (LKA can attest to this- personally I would have preferred White Lightning but that'll do). I do not wish to play it again. I had my fill. It gets very expensive to play after awhile.
I realize your post was meant to be sarcastic, but I've very much been there, done that.
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Infy
Member
I’ve been deliberating whether or not I should post here, but if possible I’d like to address the core underlying issue at hand — namely ‘high stress’ gameplay.
To an extent, everyone will draw from their own personal background and experiences with video-games, and (I could be wrong here, but) yours seems deeply intertwined with other personal achievements in life. There’s typically nothing wrong with setting self-imposed rules when tackling most challenges in life; in many cases doing so serves only to benefit. (In academia, sporting drills, workplace benchmarks, etc)
However, I think the problem in this scenario is that we’re seeing a meta shift in a multiplayer video-game that doesn’t align with what you personally perceive to be enjoyable. The thing is, meta development is not unique to PSO. Without deviating too much from the topic at hand, I’d like to offer a couple of examples:
You enjoy Mario games, right? Super Mario 64 was being enjoyed by casual players back in the mid-90s, and continues to be enjoyed by many today. Among those who still play the game in 2020, many of them aim to push the meta and learn the game at the highest level possible. As a more recent example, Super Mario Maker 2 started with a thriving community of casual players, but as the number of active players declined and community level creator counts decreased, what was left were mostly players seeking to achieve incredibly advanced and difficult feats in very challenging custom levels.
I myself have a background in competitive fighting games and in speedrunning early 90s video-games. Personally speaking I love to see meta shifts brought about by virtue of communication between players and lots of grinding scenarios out. Unadulterated development like that is seldom seen in modern gaming. As for stress, it’s typically rooted in a competitive mindset, and when competitive people are tasked with working for together it can be a clash of opinions or egos. Setting aside preconceptions or expectations when playing with unfamiliar people is something I find incredibly useful, because it offers flexibility out of the gate rather than forcing adaptation. (Which, depending on egos, can be a tall order)
PSO’s meta has been developing for almost 20 years now, and without trying to speculate too much, I’d wager that a decent portion of the active players on Ephinea are at least somewhat well-versed in how to play the game effectively.
I’ve not been on the server for as long as many of you have (only since early 2017 with a long hiatus), but in the past number of months I’ve been fortunate enough to play with a wealth of players of varying skill levels, and I don’t tend to limit who I play with. Almost every single player in over 1000 hours played since April has been very accommodating, and I’ve learned to develop my own play as a result of player guidance and resources made available to me through this community.
I’d rather not touch on the topic of particular weapons, techniques or classes, because to be frank I don’t those are where this pent up frustration has arisen from.
In summary, stress when playing video-games isn’t inherently a bad thing depending on player mentality, and teamwork requires a degree of flexibility from all involved. There are people out here enjoying the game, man. Stay well, and please don’t let some bad interactions/experiences sully your love for the game. That goes for everyone.
To an extent, everyone will draw from their own personal background and experiences with video-games, and (I could be wrong here, but) yours seems deeply intertwined with other personal achievements in life. There’s typically nothing wrong with setting self-imposed rules when tackling most challenges in life; in many cases doing so serves only to benefit. (In academia, sporting drills, workplace benchmarks, etc)
However, I think the problem in this scenario is that we’re seeing a meta shift in a multiplayer video-game that doesn’t align with what you personally perceive to be enjoyable. The thing is, meta development is not unique to PSO. Without deviating too much from the topic at hand, I’d like to offer a couple of examples:
You enjoy Mario games, right? Super Mario 64 was being enjoyed by casual players back in the mid-90s, and continues to be enjoyed by many today. Among those who still play the game in 2020, many of them aim to push the meta and learn the game at the highest level possible. As a more recent example, Super Mario Maker 2 started with a thriving community of casual players, but as the number of active players declined and community level creator counts decreased, what was left were mostly players seeking to achieve incredibly advanced and difficult feats in very challenging custom levels.
I myself have a background in competitive fighting games and in speedrunning early 90s video-games. Personally speaking I love to see meta shifts brought about by virtue of communication between players and lots of grinding scenarios out. Unadulterated development like that is seldom seen in modern gaming. As for stress, it’s typically rooted in a competitive mindset, and when competitive people are tasked with working for together it can be a clash of opinions or egos. Setting aside preconceptions or expectations when playing with unfamiliar people is something I find incredibly useful, because it offers flexibility out of the gate rather than forcing adaptation. (Which, depending on egos, can be a tall order)
PSO’s meta has been developing for almost 20 years now, and without trying to speculate too much, I’d wager that a decent portion of the active players on Ephinea are at least somewhat well-versed in how to play the game effectively.
I’ve not been on the server for as long as many of you have (only since early 2017 with a long hiatus), but in the past number of months I’ve been fortunate enough to play with a wealth of players of varying skill levels, and I don’t tend to limit who I play with. Almost every single player in over 1000 hours played since April has been very accommodating, and I’ve learned to develop my own play as a result of player guidance and resources made available to me through this community.
I’d rather not touch on the topic of particular weapons, techniques or classes, because to be frank I don’t those are where this pent up frustration has arisen from.
In summary, stress when playing video-games isn’t inherently a bad thing depending on player mentality, and teamwork requires a degree of flexibility from all involved. There are people out here enjoying the game, man. Stay well, and please don’t let some bad interactions/experiences sully your love for the game. That goes for everyone.
Ade
;3
Thank you. It is possible that I've allowed real world stress to cause me too much harm lately, and it's negatively affecting other things. I should take a look at that, as well.
I can't exactly force my job to become easier...but maybe I could find ways to improve work / life balance so that I don't feel so drained all the time and can enjoy other stuff (like gaming) more.
egg yolk
Member
This is a perspective that maybe not many people have been involved with. I always think of Ocarina of Time when these kinds of topics come up, and how many insane memory manipulation tricks the 100% run currently has. In speedruns they are forced to change the way they play the game when a more optimal strategy is found, it's so interesting because these strategies can't be patched out of an N64 rom. Specifically the roms published by Nintendo are used for runs, it's similar to PSOBB in my perspective. You want it to be retained to at least original character stats and weapon data, which ultimately gives you something to work from, since the game knowledge is stable. Ephinea is the only server with public games that does this well and to change it should need a lot of consideration. Changing the rates of drops or something doesn't bother me, but the actual game should be preserved like this in my opinion. I'm not sure many agree with that though.
Ade
;3
Well, OoT is a single player game. The DF / no heal conundrum is negatively impacting multimode play in a multiplayer game.
There's a glitch in the original Bases Loaded for NES where you can literally throw a 100% impossible to hit pitch if you use the right pitcher and throw the ball up as far and to the left as possible. It counts as hitting the strike zone so the batter is given a strike even if he doesn't swing. It is extremely easy to perform and not even the CPU can hit it. If Bases Loaded was still being played competitively today, it would be absolutely necessary to patch that out. (It isn't really played by anyone now, so it's more of an oddity.)
I would argue that DF no resta play upends traditional play to the degree that it is ALMOST as disruptive as the example above, and should therefore be addressed, as PSO is still being played.
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No Hit
Member
Viewing this as a negative is simply subjective. Many others don't view it the same as you at all or even give it any thought and just play the game. It's already been told over and over by people who play pubs more often than you that this playstyle is not as common as you claim it is.
Your comparison is ridiculous. DF is not as strong as you believe it is. You've already been told this countless times.
Ade
;3
I said disruptive, not OP...
-_-;
And yes I think of “having fewer options available to my non HU because of the HU’s choices” as negative.
StevieWonderDownUnder
~~~~~~~
Lol. I would argue that you are exaggerating.
Also, why are you equating a glitch in a game that is actually game breaking to Dark Flow and HP management in PSO. They literally aren't even related in concept. The lengths you will go to convince people to bend to your sensibilities is astonishing.
Also, why are you equating a glitch in a game that is actually game breaking to Dark Flow and HP management in PSO. They literally aren't even related in concept. The lengths you will go to convince people to bend to your sensibilities is astonishing.
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Ade
;3
Not same. I said “almost” as disruptive. I think that’s more fair.
There is a counterplay to (or rather, a way to play alongside) DF: Play the game as other classes with fewer options to cater to the DF user. I think that’s bad.
No Hit
Member
Your comparison is entirely flawed. The main focus of you bringing up that glitch was because of how strong it is. Otherwise why would you have gone into the details of how it works and why it has no counterplay? You mentioned absolutely nothing about how it impacted the community of that game.
DF is not as strong as you believe it is.
Ade
;3
No, I wasn't intending it to be an argument about strength (as in attack power). I was showing that something got discovered that "breaks the game" in a super old game that nobody plays anymore (Bases Loaded), but if people DID still play it, it would have to be addressed.
Many years after PSO was released, DF gameplay became more common, and it is highly disruptive (not quite game-breaking) to normal play. And not in a good way: It disrupted gameplay in a way that leaves other players with fewer options. If nobody played PSO anymore, this wouldn't matter. However, lots of people still play PSO, so it should be addressed. This has nothing to do with the weapon's power. (Although, if the weapon was considerably weaker, nobody would use it, and we wouldn't have this issue.)
That's what I'm saying.
Given how rare the highest of high hit caliburs are, I do not think DF is OP. I do think it's too different from everything else in the game and doesn't really fit. This would be like if suddenly Rangers could jump and skip over small gaps but nobody else could. It would just be too different from everything else and not feel right.
I think DF low HP gameplay is disruptive because it's the only weapon in the game with that requirement and it decreases playstyle options for others. The only other gameplay mechanic that requires low HP is proccing invincibility, which isn't done all the time and doesn't keep the FO from using Resta for most of the game. (Negate / Heal would fix this, too.)
Bases Loaded's title screen music is a banger, though:
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redria7
CakeWatch
I would counter that argument by saying that I like that there is a weapon that requires low hp to function. That’s a really neat mechanic, and having lots of things like this makes weapon hunting fun. I would actually argue that having a suite of semi-viable weapons with a similar hp mechanic would be cool.
Weapons with standout mechanics, like heaven striker, make the difference between everyone just swinging big swords and everyone actually being able to choose what effects they want to play with.
Weapons with standout mechanics, like heaven striker, make the difference between everyone just swinging big swords and everyone actually being able to choose what effects they want to play with.
No Hit
Member
You're comparing something that breaks a game to something that doesn't come close. Hence "entirely flawed comparison."
Let's just stop saying "fewer options." It's one less option, and unless you're the Force it's not your option anyways. It's the Force's option to use heal. You getting healed by the force is a scenario, not your option.
You actually lose nearly no options as an android in this scenario. The Force has many, and not having to worry about healing others opens up their kit a great deal. They actually GAIN options if Resta is off the table as they get more opportunities to position to use their weapons and offensive techs as opposed to making sure someone is topped off in the middle of a spawn set.
Drastic reach here. Dark Flow is playing by many of the basic fundamentals of the game. Preparing for an enemy spawn, getting in position, and attacking. It's accomplishing the same thing as charge vulcans or lk38 (quick burst killing potential) and it's usage depending on mechanics already existing within the game (healing, berserk, tools that lower HP)
Rangers jumping is not playing by fundamental mechanics within the game at all, and is completely abstract. Once again an entirely flawed comparison.
Rarity of caliburs has nothing to do with this. It's about how much the weapon accomplishes, which you seem to be avoiding entirely. The question is whether or not you feel DF at its full vanilla potential is overpowered.
DF is not as strong as you believe it is.
Ade
;3
Once again I'm not arguing about DF's strength.
The Ranger jumping comparison is not flawed in that it would disrupt gameplay the same amount that DF does. Yes it is completely unrealistic and that's not the point. I would argue this would actually be LESS disruptive because it wouldn't be preventing anyone from doing anything else.
DF is used along with other mechanics, but no other weapon in the game is anything like it. That's why I think it's too different from everything else in the game. It is the only weapon in the game that requires you to be near death for it to be at maximum power. It seems out of place in a game where you can't target your heals. In my estimation, this might be why Sega never released it, and only the 3rd party server company did after Sega handed the game to them. The game was almost done at the time, so they were like, "Who cares if we break the game?"
Dark Flow plays by many basic fundamentals of the game, yes, but its KEY aspect does not. That is why it's out of place. Because of zero death XP penalty and very little inconvenience from death, there's no reason NOT to use it. That, combined with it being an imposition on others, is a recipe for disaster in a multiplayer ARPG.
FO's don't have fewer options if they are able to heal. They still have all the other options. Being expected to NOT heal might prompt them to do other stuff more often, but those other options still exist.
I will concede that expecting players NOT to heal only gives ONE less option, but at the expense of many other relaxed gameplay mechanics that are gone in the absence of plentiful Resta heals. (ie. Not having to be so careful all the time and fewer concerns about resource consumption.) This is why I think the gameplay is more stressful when a DF user is imposing on others.
Every argument comes back to this, and it's always, "Well nobody else is worried about this, Ade," or "Just deal with it" when all the other ammo is used up. But other people are concerned about it. Many of them have posted about it here. There is not a single other mechanic in the game that simultaneously A. Runs contrary to other mechanics and B. forces people to play a certain way at the cost of being a social outcast if you don't comply. That is not a good thing. It is a very, very bad thing.
The Ranger jumping comparison is not flawed in that it would disrupt gameplay the same amount that DF does. Yes it is completely unrealistic and that's not the point. I would argue this would actually be LESS disruptive because it wouldn't be preventing anyone from doing anything else.
DF is used along with other mechanics, but no other weapon in the game is anything like it. That's why I think it's too different from everything else in the game. It is the only weapon in the game that requires you to be near death for it to be at maximum power. It seems out of place in a game where you can't target your heals. In my estimation, this might be why Sega never released it, and only the 3rd party server company did after Sega handed the game to them. The game was almost done at the time, so they were like, "Who cares if we break the game?"
Dark Flow plays by many basic fundamentals of the game, yes, but its KEY aspect does not. That is why it's out of place. Because of zero death XP penalty and very little inconvenience from death, there's no reason NOT to use it. That, combined with it being an imposition on others, is a recipe for disaster in a multiplayer ARPG.
FO's don't have fewer options if they are able to heal. They still have all the other options. Being expected to NOT heal might prompt them to do other stuff more often, but those other options still exist.
I will concede that expecting players NOT to heal only gives ONE less option, but at the expense of many other relaxed gameplay mechanics that are gone in the absence of plentiful Resta heals. (ie. Not having to be so careful all the time and fewer concerns about resource consumption.) This is why I think the gameplay is more stressful when a DF user is imposing on others.
Every argument comes back to this, and it's always, "Well nobody else is worried about this, Ade," or "Just deal with it" when all the other ammo is used up. But other people are concerned about it. Many of them have posted about it here. There is not a single other mechanic in the game that simultaneously A. Runs contrary to other mechanics and B. forces people to play a certain way at the cost of being a social outcast if you don't comply. That is not a good thing. It is a very, very bad thing.
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No Hit
Member
Ade
;3
It’s a nuanced argument. I clarified as best as I could in posts following yours.
I’m not going to any great lengths to bend people to my will. I’ve conceded several points throughout this discussion. I do not appreciate your statement.
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