wrath of forest and path to salvation are bad quests

[Powder Keg]

I don't really see a big problem with it. While I understand it's currently everyone plays due to monster counts and other factors, if something were to be removed or changed too much, the community would mostly just find another quest to do the same thing with.


And as much as I love this game, I'll be honest here--the game is 15 years old. If we can be thrown a bone, I say we should take it. If things like WoF and 2x experience didn't exist, I probably wouldn't have as much of a drive because I (and a lot of other players) have probably grinded enough already without as much reward.

tl:dr - this isn't on the level of game-breaking, but I wouldn't go much farther than this.

 

[FANSean]

yeah agastya i don't know why you're so upset about people being funneled to do a singular quest for profit, it's going great for pso2!

 

[Shichimiya]

I think these quest should only be sometimes too. They are fun and fine for events and maybe emergency quests like PSO2.

They seem a little bit silly and not much like the rest of PSO at all. POD and Max Attack are supposed to be the special ones right?

 

[Myzith]

I see the point of enemyspam like that spoiling people but to be honest i can still have fun playing the basic level or a quest that offers an interesting reward at the end.

Definitely have to go for enemy spam with events such as easter but I want more quests that offer unique rewards or are just a shorter version of the regular stages.

 

[Ade]

Maybe some of the "spam" level quests could have like a 100k Meseta entry fee for Ult mode? Just spitballing here...

 

[XII]

If you niggas want a challenge revolving around dude armies, maybe we can just remove these quests and replace them with Beyond the Horizon alternatives for every episode, like the idea Ade put on the table. Strategic quests that have item drops disabled and feature heavy emphasis on good positioning and teamwork.

Honestly I think that seems like a fair compromise. Everyone is happy: the people defending Post Traumatic Stress and Wall of Flesh get a highly sophisticated and very challenging team-based quest in which they can slaughter to their heart's content, and the people against Path to Succ and Wrath of Ferrets get to say that those quests aren't impossibly firm best-at-everything choices with extremely shitty design decisions.

I think the takeaway I'm getting from this is that there needs to be a bit more quality control, but people still want the thrill of playing PSO elevated to their extremes. Outright taking these quests away probably isn't the right choice, but it can be if a new quest that accomplishes the same thing under more reasonable circumstances is implemented at the same time.

And for fuck's sake, Colette. Meta Knight was a mistake and you know it.

 

[Zen]

Honestly I think that seems like a fair compromise. Everyone is happy

That seems like a shit idea and I wouldn't be happy. I heard someone speaking about an entry fee when PTS was added on this server (maybe it was Ade already) and this might be the smartest compromise so far. A fairly high amout of mesetas would avoid these quests to be overplayed.

 

[Mille Marteaux]

That seems like a shit idea and I wouldn't be happy.

but i thought people were having fun playing them! it's okay if there's no drops as long as people are having fun, right? or are you telling me you're only having fun if the 70 low-level enemies you just speedkilled in one room of forest are giving you event drops?

oh wait, nobody plays MAS. don't want to learn something difficult or challenging, i guess.

 

[Matt]

Yeah, sorry, but PTS at the very least has to go. I just looked at the spawn map and how anyone can defend the quest is absurd.

being a normal spawn and there being multiples of them by like the 4th or 5th room is completely game-breaking, especially if there are event drops which drop from any enemy. It completely undermines normal hunting -- instead of hunting for what you want and getting things along the way, you'll be playing the 900-enemy quest and getting your item from the event that way instead.

It also breaks the game because if there are more than 10 enemies in a spawn, you can't even FO it properly which is honestly quite silly.

Regarding "there is always a best so people will play that":

It is true that there is always a best quest (examples being TTF/RT/MA4), but the issue here is that the best quest is too good and there's not much variety. If you're not playing the best quest, you are literally wasting your time when it comes to [event drop of the season] and gaining EXP. There shouldn't be such a large disparity that the community feels pressured to play certain quests if they don't want to be wasting their time.

This has been an issue since PSOGC (play the best quest with the most amount of monster X to get what you want), but at least for many enemies there were multiple quests to be played that weren't much different and the best quests for various enemies in an area weren't the same one. No, we're not going to make "Wrath of" or "Path to" for every area.

Limited-time quests are perfectly fine, you play the quest for a while then go do other things, but even when the Easter Event is down, why won't people be playing PTS? It's a brilliant source of EXP, materials, photon drops, ruins drops and whatever other source of ruins/common drops there are. It has to go to promote diversity in the game and avoid quest power creep.

I will see to it personally that PTS is at least nerfed in some way. Admittedly it is my fault that the quest exists here in its current state as I was the one who got it added (since it was a popular quest), but I see now that was a mistake.

 

[Spuz]

but i thought people were having fun playing them! it's okay if there's no drops as long as people are having fun, right? or are you telling me you're only having fun if the 70 low-level enemies you just speedkilled in one room of forest are giving you event drops?

oh wait, nobody plays MAS. don't want to learn something difficult or challenging, i guess.

Actually Zen is one of the FEW people I know that plays a vast array of different and challenging quests and attempts to learn the spawns and play them to the best of his ability. Also, Lots of people play maS. Iv'e been in many maS games pprevious to easter but the event is on and if you think people are going to play a quest with no drops while the event is on, then that's stupidity.

 

[Matt]

While here I'd like to do a comparison since MAS has been brought up:

PTS
R1 - 400
R2 - 362
R3 - 161
Total - 923

MAS E1
Caves - 160
Ruins - 129
Spaceship - 159
Total - 448

We nerfed MAS because it was too many enemies in a too short span of time. While MAS is shorter than PTS due to it being 3 static rooms, PTS is still faster for total enemies, so it's going to get nerfed because frankly I shouldn't have added it with drops in the first place.

 

[MagicLuthee]

Hey, just chippin' in to say I'm trying out quests here and there because I don't know 99 % of them, and I did Wrath of the Forest yesterday and thought to myself "What the F***". I'm new to playing custom quests, haven't done Path to Salvation yet but now I won't since there's megid traps which is effed-up design.
Monster spam quests with no design whatsoever shouldn't be available on a decently balanced server is what I think ^_^"

 

[Zen]

PTS is one way to let off steam in this game. The large amount of ennemies is perfect. I don't recall any other quest beeing as satisfying in that way. Don't nerf the spawns, just add an entry fee and it won't be a problem anymore. And despite the fact that I dislike WOF, you can't say it has no design. It's an extermination quest and it fulfills its job.

 

[conenubi701]

The only reason I play Normal Mode for maybe an hour or two is to play Dolmolm Research, but I'll help in PTS for egg hunting when no one wants to DR. Why not add an invisible wall to prevent wall glitching into the "secret room" warp and leave it for the end of the quest like Dolmolm Research. Pair this with Zen's entrance fee idea and I think everyone is happy. You can also leave the quest untouched and make it so people can run it 2 or 3 times before they're account is locked out of playing it for 24 hours. This game relies on gear and takes no skill unless it's battle mode. So if your team sucks where you feel forced to play PTS with Freeze Traps then here's an amazing idea, don't play the quest until you're better geared lol.

I don't really care if people are playing WoF, but I'm not going to make a post saying it should be removed because other people enjoy it. I think I ran it a total of 6 times, 5 with Agastya. Yeah we got eggs, but standing around waiting for mosquitoes was boring as fuck. @Anime said he was doing that shit for 12 hours and running it since the event started. I don't know how you can spam it for 12 hours, but props to you bro, because I sure as hell can't do that. I went back to Dolmolm Research after those 5 WoF runs lol.


Even the custom Girth quests are still enemy spam runs just like all the other extermination quests. We were spamming LHB to level up my HUmar during 2x exp and that is still an enemy spamfest even after the nerf, leveled up in no time due to the higher enemy exp in E2. Should that be removed? Maybe drops should be nerfed in there because my buddy found a Pwand. That's far more broken than Spread Needles and DoB's. Or let's remove ROCT because it forces playing with a FO. lol. As you can see, those are pretty ridiculous arguments.

i
i'd seriously rather see people grinding FIY for eggs than wotf/pts.

I'm glad I suggested Rappy scaring to not drop custom eggs before the event went live. Server would have been filled with mindless people grinding FIY in solo rooms instead of actually playing with other people.

If "stuffing as many enemies into a room as possible" is going to cause people to never play quests that have interesting design or depth,

PSO doesn't need amazing quest design, it's a hack and slash game, just kill shit.

 

[Ade]

"Even the custom Girth quests are still enemy spam runs just like all the other extermination quests."

False.

There is a huge chasm between WoF / PTS and Girth's quests. Don't put his stuff up on the chopping block just because you're upset about blatantly abusive quests getting nerfed. Girth's "Lost" quest are the logical outgrowth of the Base Area > Hopkins Area formula that SEGA ALREADY ESTABLISHED, and they doesn't go beyond that threshold. If you look at Sega's content and examine how much EXP the Base Area is worth in comparison to the Hopkins Area, Girth does not break this mold. That's one of the many reasons why Girth's quests are so well designed. Furthermore, some minor adjustments were already made for quality assurance.

Regarding design, look at the terrible design of Desert 2 in the Base Area in comparison to the way Girth did it LSH. He made it fun and exciting with an interesting layout. This is light years beyond the design of PTS or WoF.

It's not even valid to compare Girth's stuff to that other trash.

Also, the other Extermination quests are not nearly as abusive as WoF / PTS. That comparison is invalid, too. Go play EN4 and tell me it's the same as PTS. I laugh at that notion.

"PSO doesn't need amazing quest design, it's a hack and slash game, just kill shit."

Then go play on Eden or Ultima. We want some standards here.

 

[conenubi701]

I'm not upset, I just find it funny that after you guys spammed WoF so much now you want it removed. PTS shouldn't be removed because you don't enjoy other people playing it. I already gave my solution for PTS, because removing it from the server over a few people is too extreme. You had no input on my solution, you just want it gone.

As you can see, those are pretty ridiculous arguments.

I was being sarcastic with nerfing lhb or RoCT (not girths quest), in case you didn't read this part. So no need to be all sensitive.

That's one of the many reasons why Girth's quests are so well designed.

If they were so well designed, the admin that wants PTS gone wouldn't have called LHB utter shit. Followed by removing it, and ganking it before TeamCo cried about it.

"PSO doesn't need amazing quest design, it's a hack and slash game, just kill shit."

Then go play on Eden or Ultima. We want some standards here.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know you were the one that set the standards here. (couldn't find the kissy face on here so settled for this classic)

 

[Mille Marteaux]

I have played wotf about.. five or six times? I didn't do moths until my third or so run. You were there for some of them and then it was spreading like wildfire.

Before I went to bed, I sent this PM to Soda. I did not want to see this go on any further.

I'm like many others. I'll play whatever quest I need to play to get ahead.. but that doesn't mean I'll like it. That room needed to go.

Hell, look at our fucking kill counters for Ruins mooks and Moths. We've seen nearly a third of our total kills for moths in the past two weeks, and about a fifth of our total kills for Ruins mooks in the past two weeks. That is absolutely disgusting.

If you can't see a problem with that, then you're somehow more short-sighted than I am.

But hey, it's okay. Keep deflecting arguments, keep ignoring points, keep throwing out childish insults. I'm sure they'll work sooner or later.

 

[conenubi701]

You might have only ran it 5 or 6 times. Your team mate on the other hand has ran it far more.

Spoiler

:55:44 42000091 Vex Jr how many times have you ran that quest lol
06:55:45 42001392 anime ok ok :0
06:55:47 42000787 Golshan that was 4
06:55:53 42001392 anime ive been doing it for
06:55:54 42000091 Vex Jr i mean since event
06:55:56 42001392 anime 12 hours?
06:55:57 42000091 Vex Jr started
06:55:59 42001392 anime lmao
06:56:00 42001968 Cordelia wof? ww
06:56:01 42000091 Vex Jr lol
06:56:01 42000787 Golshan i just started playing today
06:56:06 42001392 anime wof/tyrell
06:56:09 42000091 Vex Jr that was my 2nd wof i think

Keep deflecting arguments, keep ignoring points.

The only people deflecting arguments or ignoring points seem to be you and Ade. I already had my input on PTS which neither of you have touched on, as for WoF I have no input on it since I don't play it.

 

[Spuz]

I agree that WoF's moths were stupid as standing there getting hundreds of dead monsters in minutes is just ridiculous but in PTS you have to (as mentioned) work together as a team and learn the spawns. I also understand you saying the large room is a bit ridiculous but the rest of the quest is just like any other and enjoyable to play/learn (Full EGO, Simulator 2.0 and many many others); what are we going to nerf everything?

The thing I do not understand is that, you people don't seem to understand that we have an event going on. This is going to happen always. If this quest was removed a different quest with lots of monsters in that area will be played and that one will build up the counter. This is how it has been and always will be since time existed. People want to get as much as they can as quick as they can while they can. That is NORMAL, a human quality we call Greed. That's the natural way people will play, to get the eggs they desire. This is not the quests fault but the people, the general public. The only way to avoid this 'issue' is to have a set quest for drops during the event to be spammed in which the moderators can control themselves. This whole situation is unfair. It's like making a strawberry sundae, giving it to a child, after they have one spoonful, taking it away. Ofc that child is going to be upset. He bloody loves strawberry sundae. It might be unhealthy and bad for him but hell whats wrong with a treat now and then.

The only people deflecting arguments or ignoring points seem to be you and Ade. I already had my input on PTS which neither of you have touched on, as for WoF I have no input on it since I don't play it.

We are trying to find a resolve.

P.s. Going to shop buy a Strawberry Sundae.

 

[fishhao]

There were so few people playing PTS before Easter event (maybe me, vex, Zen, few of the JP peeps) and nobody was complaining then. If people complained when the quests were released, maybe I'd understand (like when me and a few JP peeps found out you could get a hit Master Raven from boxes in mine simulator, which caused the 24 hour rollback oops), but it's been like a month or 2 since PTS was released. And the complaints are coming now that other people are learning and profiting from it. To me, that sounds like entitlement...

"I don't like how that person is playing the game, they're not playing how I want to play"

I'm sorry but everyone just enjoys different ways of playing. And the point about megid traps before...Anti-dark rings are made available now via Tyrell's Ego, so go work for it instead of complaining about how Megid traps are stupid.

If you want to be gatekeepers of so called standards in a 15 year old game, maybe you should be the first ones to jump on the new quests and try them out.