Introducing the PSO Rebalance Project: PSOBB REBORN

This is all very neat, good job, I'm excited to give it a go!

I notice you list the new class stat maxes and make some mentions in the summary about other class changes - I'd be very interested to hear your balance philosophy for each class! I don't know if you are leaving trap amounts untouched, but an idea I was kicking around on the topic was nerfing HU/RAcast traps and buffing HU/RAcaseal traps, to give both of them individual niches in power and crowd control while still letting them do both.

Yellowboze being able to get all items is an interesting choice, the Section ID system is pretty harsh on solo players so I actually kinda like the idea of it being the ideal solo ID while the other IDs all get an advantage in party play or focus hunting due to their higher drop rates.

Thanks ^^

As per your suggestion I've added a section to the class max stats doc discussing where each class fits compared to other classes, as well as how well they are suited to either group or solo play.

As for traps, while i'd love to take a look at them I currently don't have any tools to do so. Unless Soly gives me that ability, along with the other client based things I'd like to change, in his patcher i'm afraid I can't do anything with them atm.
 
I'd suggest you to compile a list of things so I can look at them... currently I'm doing stuff on the ship but I can look at the client stuff when I'm bored of the ship's code xD
 
Fair enough, ill put everything I'd still like access to in the Progress section of the main post. Though to be brief here:
Invincibility Frames
Knockdown HP threshold
Damage Dealt by Bosses/Set Damage mechanics.
Trap Quantities per class
Mag bonuses per level (I.e changing POW from giving 2 points per level to something else)
Starting Techs per class
 
Alright.. well, some I can tell you yes or no right away are

Starting techs per class... in Tethealla, Soda opted for a generic starting character data that gets modified based on your selection from the login server.

I could easily change this to do it like Sylverant and have a different file per class... not really sure if I'd like to do that but I guess if it serves for something...

Mag bonuses are used in quite a few calculations in the ship server and I'd rather not mess with that stuff so I probably wont look into it, anyone is free to gather the info about the client and wait until I release the server source whenever that happens.

The rest should be client side only...

I was thinking of even monitoring the traps for like, if you use an "infinite trap" cheat kinda thing which would require me to have "max traps" configuration in the server but just thinking of it makes me want to ditch everything lol.
To be honest it wouldn't be that big of a deal, infinite traps...
 
Thats fine. The three most important are IF frames, knockdowns and Boss stuff, the rest are mostly just curiosities or issues I can work around.

There isn't much of a rush either, I don't see myself being done with the monster changes any time soon, but those three things are very important for correcting balance issues so an answer to them would be great at some point, even if its just you telling me where/how to look for them.
 
Btw.. Iirc, Ives was telling me about some of the set monster stuff was in the battle parameters... you might want to drop him a message and ask him about that, I'm not sure if that covers bosses too but you might want to know anyway.
 
can't buy into the no mechguns on Hu/Fos
Its pretty much impossible to balance in such a way that mechguns are actually useful for rangers in the new system without them being crazy strong for Hunters. Also helps define the two classes more where before Hunters could essentially be less accurate but more powerful rangers.

Forces do get use of certain rare mechguns (psycho gun specifically) so there is that possibility, especially with the buffed S-Rank weapons.

Not to mention multi-hit hunter weapons got a serious retuning as well and should be much more useful.
 
Reminds me of Aleron Ives' Enhancement Pack for PSOPC (V2) (also max stat patch too,) which I enjoy using.
I've started working on a GC one now. :P The tinkering never stops! :eek:

Its pretty much impossible to balance in such a way that mechguns are actually useful for rangers in the new system without them being crazy strong for Hunters.
The only way to control Mechguns is through drastic stat rebalances, basically throwing away the revamp Sega did for V3 and going back to the V2 system where common weapons are useless in Ultimate, rare weapons are an order of magnitude stronger than common weapons, both melee and ranged weapons have high ATP, and all monsters have 2000+ DFP. The ability to hit a single target nine times is simply not balanced, and the only way to mitigate it is to make the monsters strong enough that they don't die from mechgun combos.

Charge Vulcans are useless on V2, because a) 50 Hit on a weapon that gives 20 ATA to start with is nothing, so Hunters and Forces always miss, and b) sacrificial specials are multiplicative. If your base heavy mechgun damage is 400, then double damage with Charge will give you 800 damage, and enemies will fall quickly. If your base heavy mechgun damage is 200, then double damage with Charge will give you 400 damage, and enemies with the same HP will take twice as long to die, thus giving them the opportunity to fight back. One key to game balance is to disallow certain specials on certain weapons where they would be cheap: if sacrificial mechguns are a problem, and only rare mechguns are strong enough to work in Ultimate, then don't give any rare mechguns a sacrificial special. Problem solved. You don't have to worry about Charge Vulcans if they don't work in Ultimate at all.

Enemy DFP is crucial to game balance, but the higher you make it, the worse androids become at soloing, and the more workarounds they need to remain playable.
 
I've started working on a GC one now. :p The tinkering never stops! :eek:


The only way to control Mechguns is through drastic stat rebalances, basically throwing away the revamp Sega did for V3 and going back to the V2 system where common weapons are useless in Ultimate, rare weapons are an order of magnitude stronger than common weapons, both melee and ranged weapons have high ATP, and all monsters have 2000+ DFP. The ability to hit a single target nine times is simply not balanced, and the only way to mitigate it is to make the monsters strong enough that they don't die from mechgun combos.

Charge Vulcans are useless on V2, because a) 50 Hit on a weapon that gives 20 ATA to start with is nothing, so Hunters and Forces always miss, and b) sacrificial specials are multiplicative. If your base heavy mechgun damage is 400, then double damage with Charge will give you 800 damage, and enemies will fall quickly. If your base heavy mechgun damage is 200, then double damage with Charge will give you 400 damage, and enemies with the same HP will take twice as long to die, thus giving them the opportunity to fight back.

Enemy DFP is crucial to game balance, but the higher you make it, the worse androids become at soloing, and the more workarounds they need to remain playable.

Yup, pretty much all of this. One interesting workaround I was considering was to miniaturize all stats, to about 1/10 of the original values, and remove Enemy DFP entirely and then balance all damage around monster HP, instead of juggling two defensive mechanics that work completely differently (Resistances and DFP.) The reason for this being the hard cap on monster HP (around 65000.)

However to do that I would need to be able to change how much of each stat Mags give, which is wierdly woven into the server code and would be a pain in the ass to change : /
 
Monster HP maxes at 32767, not 65535. You can't abandon enemy DFP when the HP cap is so low and when you can't boost Technique base damage to correspond with weapon damage. This isn't PSO2 where bosses have millions of HP and each attack does 1000+ damage. ;)

A major downside of the V2 stat system is that regular weapon drops have no importance, because they're all useless. One nice thing about the V3 stat system is that you actually have a reason to check ???? weapons to see what special and percentages you got, because there's an opportunity for you to find something useful. On V2, that can't happen.
 
Monster HP maxes at 32767, not 65535. You can't abandon enemy DFP when the HP cap is so low and when you can't boost Technique base damage to correspond with weapon damage. This isn't PSO2 where bosses have millions of HP and each attack does 1000+ damage. ;)

A major downside of the V2 stat system is that regular weapon drops have no importance, because they're all useless. One nice thing about the V3 stat system is that you actually have a reason to check ???? weapons to see what special and percentages you got, because there's an opportunity for you to find something useful. On V2, that can't happen.

Huh, the BP editor goes to 65K+ Does it just not register after a certain point? I've had weird things happen with especially high HP monsters, specifically Vol-Opt phase 2 just instantly dies when you hit it if you give it too much HP.

And sure i'd probably also need access to base tech damage too if I wanted to miniaturize that much, but I could do a work around with resistances, since they actually work consistently unlike DFP... Boosting tech damage inline with weapon damage is actually the easy part that i've already accomplished: You just give every force weapon in the game a tech boost of some sort, and massive ones at that for higher end equipment.

For now im using DFP to deal with the extremely low HP cap... Though I may need to readjust if the HP cap is even lower than i thought.
 
Monster HP is stored as 16 bits, but instead of going from 0 - 65535, the value is signed, so you go from -32768 - +32767. The reason Vol Opt dies in one hit is that you gave him negative HP, so any attack will cause the game to check his HP, see that it's < 0, and make him die, even if you do 0 damage.
 
Monster HP is stored as 16 bits, but instead of going from 0 - 65535, the value is signed, so you go from -32768 - +32767. The reason Vol Opt dies in one hit is that you gave him negative HP, so any attack will cause the game to check his HP, see that it's < 0, and make him die, even if you do 0 damage.

Ah i see... Thats pretty dumb. Don't suppose there is any chance of being able to fix that? Or is that might-as-well-rewrite-the-whole-game territory?
 
If it's my battle param editor, I just have to change an "ushort" to "short" and that's it.
If it's Tofu or any other well yeah, I can't do much.
 
He's talking about fixing the game, not the BattleParam editor. :P No, it's never going to be fixed. You must use DFP to prevent players from exhausting monster HP too soon; it's the only way to handle damage in PSO.
 
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