Episode 2 Drop Tables

Do you agree with the changes proposed?

  • Yes

    Votes: 105 77.8%

  • No

    Votes: 30 22.2%
  • Total voters
    135
  • Poll closed .
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Not open for further replies.
Matt

Matt

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Hi guys.

So one thing that has come up a lot over time (from a while ago and recently) is that Episode 2's drop tables are far too weak in comparison to Episode 1 and 4. Episode 2 is hardly played because it doesn't really drop many core items, if any at all, and many players want to see that changed.

While this makes sense from a balance point of view (changing the tables, that is), I want to ask the community if they'd want to see the Episode 2 tables change, as generally the Episode 1/2 tables are sacred and there's some form of nostalgia attached to them.

Here are the details of what a change would entail:
  • Good items that already drop will not have their position on the drop chart changed. This means Yellow's 3084, Oran's Aura Field, Redria's MKB, Skyly's SJS and other similar drops will be left unchanged.
  • Some items from Episode 4 will be removed from Episode 4 entirely and put into Episode 2 for exclusivity. A prime example will be the V50X units, however the majority of iconic stuff will stay in Episode 4 only.
    • Some stuff may end up being shared between the two episodes.
  • Only trash drops, such as the Justy rifle or Fatsia items will be replaced, although all trash drops will be made sure to still be available for any players who like to play "collect-a-thon".
  • Chances are the "bad IDs" will be buffed the most, such as Pinkal (but don't take this as gospel).
tl;dr Weaken Episode 4's godliness to make Episode 2 worth playing for drops in general.

Naturally, if we were to push forward with this, everyone will get a free Section ID change once again, and this would probably be the final drop chart change ever, as we'd do this one so all 3 areas and all 10 IDs are somewhat equal.

There will be a poll left up for around a week. Note that it will require a sizable majority for us to want to change the tables, as the point of Ephinea is to recreate the classic experience with our own features and balance tweaks that people find acceptable.

Orange means the drop has changed in some manner, whether it is a movement or addition.

Care has been taken to try and leave current established hunts as they are in Episode 2, but some mistakes may have been made.

Note that these tables are simply a prototype of the kind of things to expect. They are not final and are subject to change depending on community feedback and extra revisions.

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Note that we've also took this opportunity to move a couple of things back to the PoD bosses, so Shambertin/Kondrieu are not "useless" anymore, however items will still be obtainable normally from the enemies you know in most cases. (though if people disagree with this, we'll leave them alone)

Feel free to discuss.

Note that voting yes doesn't mean you necessarily agree with these prototype tables exactly as they are, it just means you agree with the whole idea proposed.
 
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Matt said:
Episode 2 is hardly played because it doesn't really drop many core items, if any at all, and many players want to see that changed.
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Episode 2 is the uber episode, so it's "not played much" because a lot of people don't have the patience to spend 6 months hunting an uber.

P-wand drops from gibbles (CCA/tower) and delbiter (seabed) and we have good quests for both. Girth quests make delsaber guld huntable (spaceship). Heaven punisher is huntable from the mericarols but no one really wants one of those. And PGF is the "core item" that people play ep2 to get if they're not hunting an uber. And even temple (flowens sword) has something useful on one ID. So there's kind of a reason to play each area, if you have access to the IDs.

I vote "no" to completely changing the drop charts. But I honestly wouldn't mind if some of those duplicate trash agitos got replaced with something else so that only one of each type drops in ep2. But that wouldn't buff the specific IDs you're looking to buff, so that's probably not gonna happen... (On that note though, I guess you could delete some of the pinkal gaebolgs and silence claws if you REALLY wanna buff that specific ID).

I also don't really wanna see ep4 change at all, because you guys already sort of got that one balanced.

Summary: delete duplicate trash agitos in ep2 and maybe some gaebolgs and silence claws, but leave episode 1 and 4 alone. We already went through a big ep4 change and it seems mostly balanced now... Why change it again? T_T
 
Temple: Yes
Spaceship: yes
CCA: only IDs with item repeats or multiple drops of that item from an earlier area
Seabed: Leave it alone except for trash 9 and 10 stars (like guilty light and spirit garmet). I wouldnt change more than 2 drops per ID.
Tower: I'd only change miniboss enemies with a 9 star drop. Nothing else.
 
So what would be put in to do this?
Would you do things like have Master Raven and Last Swan drop with %s?

Would you do things like make some semi rare stuff drop more for the same id? (like MSI from red temple apes)

What do you define as good drops besides the clear stuff like what you put in the opening post?

Would Photon Crystals drop if they can?
 
To add to my previous post: a lot of the people who want to see some ep2 trash replaced with good stuff might NOT want to see ep4 change again. Might wanna make a separate poll for that. "How many people wanna see the episode 4 drop charts changed again to facilitate this" vs "How many want episode 4 left alone and untouched and just have some ep2 trash deleted and replaced with good shit"
 
Rune said:
So what would be put in to do this?
Would you do things like have Master Raven and Last Swan drop with %s?

Would you do things like make some semi rare stuff drop more for the same id? (like MSI from red temple apes)

What do you define as good drops besides the clear stuff like what you put in the opening post?

Would Photon Crystals drop if they can?
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Stuff that doesn't drop already will not be added to drops (i.e. MR/LS, they will always remain hitless). Character and item balance (that is, parameters) are not going to change as a result of this.

Good drops will be items that people actively use and/or hunt for, or are somewhat iconic. Stuff like Yamigarasu and Twin Blaze are stuff that won't be changed as well, for example.

And maybe.

To add to my previous post: a lot of the people who want to see some ep2 trash replaced with good stuff might NOT want to see ep4 change again. Might wanna make a separate poll for that. "How many people wanna see the episode 4 drop charts changed again to facilitate this" vs "How many want episode 4 left alone and untouched and just have some ep2 trash deleted and replaced with good shit"
Click to expand...
That is why the opening post explains exactly what this change would mean, and that is what people are voting for. If people would prefer Episode 2 to remain unchanged to leave Episode 4 exactly as it is, they vote no.

I personally see no point changing Episode 2 without nerfing Episode 4 slightly, because Episode 4 is leaps and bounds above everything else, and if people have an option to hunt something outside of Episode 2, they will do that because Episode 2 is harder.
 
falkenjeff said:
To add to my previous post: a lot of the people who want to see some ep2 trash replaced with good stuff might NOT want to see ep4 change again. Might wanna make a separate poll for that. "How many people wanna see the episode 4 drop charts changed again to facilitate this" vs "How many want episode 4 left alone and untouched and just have some ep2 trash deleted and replaced with good shit"
Click to expand...
If ep4 needs to be nerfed to buff ep2, then I support it. Ep4 has too many broken ids that pretty much drop all the items you need.
 
I don't really like the idea of ep4 items dropping outside of ep4 and I think "Godliness" is a bit of a stretch considering how hard it is to get the good ep4 drops (lame, HS) to drop with good stats (which is fine). Most of the other drops are either not that valuable, or for newer players can be more or less replaced by something a lot cheaper (h/arm, battle, etc.). Does it really matter that much where they drop?

I think Ep2 already has enough good drops- SJS, 2 decent p-wand and HP drops, MKB, zanba, aura field. That alone covers at least half the IDs, then there are some other "okay" drops like DoB and some other armors. Then there's PGF, which is still probably a more worthwhile hunt than anything in Ep4. I wouldn't be opposed to making PGF drop from some seabed/tower enemies if you want to "make" people play "real" Ep2 more, but I think a lot of people would be.

I think the drops are already pretty well balanced, and you don't have to do anything. I guess replacing some of the junk rares with things like smartlink, V501, heavenly/whatever that a lot of players probably don't even pick up would be fine, but I really think things like lame, HS, SoF, limiter, and all the other v-units should be Ep4 only.
 
Matt said:
That is why the opening post explains exactly what this change would mean, and that is what people are voting for. If people would prefer Episode 2 to remain unchanged to leave Episode 4 exactly as it is, they vote no.
Click to expand...

That's not how humans work. They see "episode 2 buff" and go "OH FUCK YES PLEASE" and vote yes. They don't pay attention to and/or read the consequences.
 
Looking through the drop tables, about the only thing I'd feel like hunting is still Spirit Garment on very hard Redria. Ultimate Temple and Spaceship are pretty much a wash, with just a couple of neat things admit a sea of repeated 9* junk. CCA and Seabed have some nice things, but nothing at all stands out to me except for those with a drop rate of "fuck you, you're not getting it."

Episode 2 already has a problem with being a little too hard for its difficulty range; by the time you can take on Seabed you're off to the next difficulty level and have no need to return. More reason to play, at least in ultimate, is welcome by me.
 
16085k said:
I don't really like the idea of ep4 items dropping outside of ep4 and I think "Godliness" is a bit of a stretch considering how hard it is to get the good ep4 drops (lame, HS) to drop with good stats (which is fine). Most of the other drops are either not that valuable, or for newer players can be more or less replaced by something a lot cheaper (h/arm, battle, etc.). Does it really matter that much where they drop?

I think Ep2 already has enough good drops- SJS, 2 decent p-wand and HP drops, MKB, zanba, aura field. That alone covers at least half the IDs, then there are some other "okay" drops like DoB and some other armors. Then there's PGF, which is still probably a more worthwhile hunt than anything in Ep4. I wouldn't be opposed to making PGF drop from some seabed/tower enemies if you want to "make" people play "real" Ep2 more, but I think a lot of people would be.

I think the drops are already pretty well balanced, and you don't have to do anything. I guess replacing some of the junk rares with things like smartlink, V501, heavenly/whatever that a lot of players probably don't even pick up would be fine, but I really think things like lame, HS, SoF, limiter, and all the other v-units should be Ep4 only.
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I find it very hard to believe that you can compare the ep2 drop tables and ep4 drop tables and produce the word "balanced" x) Bear in mind that these ep 2 ubers take months to find. A few days of solid hunting will most likely find you anything in ep4.
 
VENOM said:
I find it very hard to believe that you can compare the ep2 drop tables and ep4 drop tables and produce the word "balanced" x)
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Episode 4 has a total of one "uber" from one enemy on one ID (Redria Girta Heaven Punisher).

Episode 2 has a ton of uber drops (SJS, two viable p-wand drops, guld drop, at least one viable heaven punisher drop, nei's claw).

Episode 4 has more casual hunts, and almost zero ubers. Episode 2 has less casual hunts, and a fuckton of ubers.
 
falkenjeff said:
Episode 4 has a total of one "uber" from one enemy on one ID (Redria Girta Heaven Punisher).

Episode 2 has a ton of uber drops (SJS, two viable p-wand drops, guld drop, at least one viable heaven punisher drop, nei's claw).

Episode 4 has more casual hunts, and almost zero ubers. Episode 2 has less casual hunts, and a fuckton of ubers.
Click to expand...
Everyone talks about the uber drops, but these are insanely hard to get. During the MU hbr, which I had around 800 points for Mu3 (no Pwand for me or anyone on the server during that month) people would tell me they can't complete the MU quests to get an hbr boost. I would join their games to help out. Ep4 is easy mode and you get rewarded for it. Ep4 is soo much more profitable with regards to hunting. If I need pds, I'll play ep4 all day and find easy items to sell eg v units.

The people who claim the drop charts are balanced, go hunt an uber in ep2. Let me know how that goes.
 
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