Server maintenance concluded for March 2nd, 2019 / メンテナンス終了のお知らせ
- Thread starter Sodaboy
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Ade
;3
So far A6 seems to be manageable by a good high level party with an attentive FO. Shambertin’s missiles hit for about 1200 damage lol
A10 is a brutal slog and you have to cheese the hell out of everything lol
100% dark HS hits Ill Gill for about 70 damage on max ATP RAcast with S30 and Z30
One major problem is that the Torment levels on Diablo 3 are coupled with no level cap so you can get infinitely stronger, whereas on PSO once you hit Lv 200 and your gear is Sphered you can’t get any stronger.
A10 is a brutal slog and you have to cheese the hell out of everything lol
100% dark HS hits Ill Gill for about 70 damage on max ATP RAcast with S30 and Z30
One major problem is that the Torment levels on Diablo 3 are coupled with no level cap so you can get infinitely stronger, whereas on PSO once you hit Lv 200 and your gear is Sphered you can’t get any stronger.
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Not sure about that one. The later Anguish levels are supposed to be always challenging and something optional to do when wanting that challenge.
I never want them to eventually be a cakewalk due to getting stronger, so keeping a cap on character level is probably here to stay.
The way parameters are boosted and maybe even the way experience or rare find are boosted are subject to change, though.
Ade
;3
I think a few important considerations.
A10 should be brutal, so the +320% ATP is great. Lv. 30 Jellen makes it so that all classes can survive if they're well leveled and geared but it still beats the hell out of you. It's perfect. Jellen is a MUST or you will get one shotted by many enemies. I love this.
The +320% DFP makes it impossible for some classes to cause damage to certain enemies, even at Lv. 200 with Lv. 30 S and Lv. 30 Z. This may need to be adjusted downward a bit. I suggested 250% at A10.
The +320% set damage makes it impossible for even the highest possible HP in the game (2614, which is max HP RAcast using 4x Heavenly / HP) to survive many of the set damage attacks, so this would need to be adjusted downward significantly (I suggested to Anime having an absolute Set Damage cap at 1500 so that every class could survive at Lv. 200 as long as the lower HP classes are okay using one or two HP units). Otherwise, unavoidable attacks like Falz's swipe would be impossible to deal with.
Enemy speed should be capped off at Ultimate Merlan speed (the fastest grunt) because when speed gets higher than that, manual evasion becomes a major issue so that lower ATA classes or non-Freeze Trap users basically can't hit anything (which was the biggest problem with Schtserv's Crack Mode).
These are some initial impressions. Overall this has been an amazing addition. If we're intending Anguish 10 to be the crux of difficulty, then it has to be set up so that extremely strong builds and well-geared characters can at least survive one attack (assuming Lv. 30 buffs and debuffs) and deal some damage. There's a difference between difficult and impossible, lol
A10 should be brutal, so the +320% ATP is great. Lv. 30 Jellen makes it so that all classes can survive if they're well leveled and geared but it still beats the hell out of you. It's perfect. Jellen is a MUST or you will get one shotted by many enemies. I love this.
The +320% DFP makes it impossible for some classes to cause damage to certain enemies, even at Lv. 200 with Lv. 30 S and Lv. 30 Z. This may need to be adjusted downward a bit. I suggested 250% at A10.
The +320% set damage makes it impossible for even the highest possible HP in the game (2614, which is max HP RAcast using 4x Heavenly / HP) to survive many of the set damage attacks, so this would need to be adjusted downward significantly (I suggested to Anime having an absolute Set Damage cap at 1500 so that every class could survive at Lv. 200 as long as the lower HP classes are okay using one or two HP units). Otherwise, unavoidable attacks like Falz's swipe would be impossible to deal with.
Enemy speed should be capped off at Ultimate Merlan speed (the fastest grunt) because when speed gets higher than that, manual evasion becomes a major issue so that lower ATA classes or non-Freeze Trap users basically can't hit anything (which was the biggest problem with Schtserv's Crack Mode).
These are some initial impressions. Overall this has been an amazing addition. If we're intending Anguish 10 to be the crux of difficulty, then it has to be set up so that extremely strong builds and well-geared characters can at least survive one attack (assuming Lv. 30 buffs and debuffs) and deal some damage. There's a difference between difficult and impossible, lol
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I think the DFP can be adjusted more, but I disagree about set damage being nerfed so that most can survive. Death is fine. Dying a lot is fine. Use Moon Atomizers and carry lots of Scapes into the battle. That’s what they’re for. If you don’t like dying or the challenge, play a lower difficulty.
You should be able to DPS down the boss before exhausting all the resources between players. I don’t know if anyone remembers dropping piles of Moon Atomizers on the ground during or before boss battles at Falz’s lair, but you may have to resort to stuff like that to win.
DFP being too high as to only cause a scratch can be a bit of concern, but some battles definitely should be bouts of stamina. That’s, again, why it is a challenge.
Again, don’t like a challenge or death? Stay away from A10.
You should be able to DPS down the boss before exhausting all the resources between players. I don’t know if anyone remembers dropping piles of Moon Atomizers on the ground during or before boss battles at Falz’s lair, but you may have to resort to stuff like that to win.
DFP being too high as to only cause a scratch can be a bit of concern, but some battles definitely should be bouts of stamina. That’s, again, why it is a challenge.
Again, don’t like a challenge or death? Stay away from A10.
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Ade
;3
Okay, should the set damage at least be nerfed so that some extraordinarily powerful builds can survive? Otherwise, you've basically made it so that set damage attacks (some of which are 100% unavoidable) are now more dangerous than Megid.
I've always been of the mindset that if a boss battles REQUIRES you to die (as in, you can't 100% avoid death by being really, really good at the game), then something is designed wrong.
You can't "get really good" and avoid Falz's swipe, for example. If he targets you, you're getting hit. The same goes for Saint / Shamb's laser beam if you're attacking him in the Cave (which someone has to do).
There's a huge difference between, "This is really hard, so if you don't like it, you don't have to play it" and "this is a spot where death is 100% unavoidable."
100% unavoidable death isn't "really hard." If that's the case, I could design the hardest Mega Man game ever:
Level 1: Mega Man beams in a room that is nothing but spiked floor. LOL DEAD GAME OVER NUB. If you don't like it, don't play it.
Certain allowances have to be made...
I've always been of the mindset that if a boss battles REQUIRES you to die (as in, you can't 100% avoid death by being really, really good at the game), then something is designed wrong.
You can't "get really good" and avoid Falz's swipe, for example. If he targets you, you're getting hit. The same goes for Saint / Shamb's laser beam if you're attacking him in the Cave (which someone has to do).
There's a huge difference between, "This is really hard, so if you don't like it, you don't have to play it" and "this is a spot where death is 100% unavoidable."
100% unavoidable death isn't "really hard." If that's the case, I could design the hardest Mega Man game ever:
Level 1: Mega Man beams in a room that is nothing but spiked floor. LOL DEAD GAME OVER NUB. If you don't like it, don't play it.
Certain allowances have to be made...
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Ade
;3
Okay. Then people will just play up to the point where they can survive one hit and heal because, beyond that, they’ll run out of Scapes and spend more time farming / replenishing resources than playing the game, which is exactly why Monster Hunter sucks. Effectively leaving some of the content “unreachable” unless you’re willing to spend way more in resources than it’s worth to clear it.
Ade
;3
I said I was very happy overall. Just trying to help...
Ade
;3
Not complaining. I was pointing out that there's a difference between "too hard" and "impossible." Now if we're accepting that there's going to be 100% unavoidable deaths and you're just going to have to spend a lot in resources, then there's nothing I can do about that. It's really easy to just personally attack me than to see the nuance of the discussion. Which is all anyone here ever does.
Trying to dissect something and really look into it isn't "complaining." I like how both of you (who are regular detractors of mine) resort to personal attacks FIRST. It pretty much means you forfeit the argument.
Soda's mind is made up on the matter and it's his server. I respect that. I also respect that he doesn't have to resort to name-calling. You two could learn from him. (Liberalce and Reason.)
Ade
;3
Just did MAE. Falz Swipe does 1891 damage on A6 so that's already out of reach for 3/4 FOs being able to survive it with 4 Heavenly/HPs equipped. (Only FOmarl could survive it if she equipped 4x H/HP and gave up every other unit.) This means that general play, if you're not wanting to burn through all of your Scapes, will have to cap at A5 if you're running any dangerous areas. Maybe even A4? I dunno. I totally understand that it's supposed to be hard, but if sheer statistical survival starts to become impossible for some classes only halfway up the pole, isn't that a bit too much? I'm not going to argue further. I'm just reporting what I ran into. If this input isn't wanted I'll cease.
We had fun, and that's what counts, I suppose.
We had fun, and that's what counts, I suppose.
GHOSTS
The monkey is in the basketball!
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The point of Angish past level 5 is to give you sessions that require you to be Captain Meta and have the uber-sphered gear that everyone lusts over or else you get fucked. I assumed that anything past 5 was built for give hardcore minmax (down to team comp) players what they wanted where meta classes and loadouts are vital instead of normal play where anything goes.
Ade
;3
Indeed, but some of the set damage moves cannot be built around. Like, there's no way in the game to get your HP high enough to survive them...
I feel like I'm the only one who is understanding this?
For example: is this a "hard" game?...
I give up. I'll have loads of fun on A1 to maybe A6 and I'm super thankful for that, but if we're not in agreement that there's a difference between real and artificial difficulty in games, and that no balancing needs to be done around that, then I can't help. =l
GHOSTS
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Personally I don't care for Anguish past level 2 or so. I've never liked "increased difficulty" that's just "hur hur buff enemy hp so that everything is a bullet sponge while enemies can shred you in a second". It feels like a cheap way to make things harder. I've never enjoyed it.
But, I understand what the team was going for with this. PSO's enemies are a joke thanks to how OP you can get. You can't really do anything to make the AI inherently more dangerous and any new spawns will get memorized at some point, so the only route is to buff them to crazy levels so that they don't explode into pieces the moment a max ATP HUcast or even a RAmarl with level 20 Shifta looks at them funny. The only thing I would change is reducing the damage multiplier on certain fixed attacks so that your homie FOs can stand a chance without you force-feeding them Moons every second like a prisoner in Gitmo going on a hunger strike.
I know I contradicted what I implied in my previous post by saying that certain fixed attacks should have their multiplier reduced, but I had a little more time to think about what you said and realized that having a difficulty where FOs melt no matter what you do is a bit unfair, even for ultra meta players.
But, I understand what the team was going for with this. PSO's enemies are a joke thanks to how OP you can get. You can't really do anything to make the AI inherently more dangerous and any new spawns will get memorized at some point, so the only route is to buff them to crazy levels so that they don't explode into pieces the moment a max ATP HUcast or even a RAmarl with level 20 Shifta looks at them funny. The only thing I would change is reducing the damage multiplier on certain fixed attacks so that your homie FOs can stand a chance without you force-feeding them Moons every second like a prisoner in Gitmo going on a hunger strike.
I know I contradicted what I implied in my previous post by saying that certain fixed attacks should have their multiplier reduced, but I had a little more time to think about what you said and realized that having a difficulty where FOs melt no matter what you do is a bit unfair, even for ultra meta players.