Quick question - Quick answer

How is damage variation calculated? Even weapons with fixed (as in, not variable) ATP will often show deviations by a few points of damage.

Did HUcast really gain much from BB? I feel like the new units (v101, v501, and Heavenly/Arms specifically) are extremely useful, but the ideal build doesn't seem to have changed much otherwise. Maybe Excalibur can fit in there somewhere, but it doesn't seem particularly useful when HUcast has access to Vjaya and Zanba. Yunchang also seems quite viable since it may be easier to find with significant hit than Zanba.
 
pantsaregood said:
How is damage variation calculated? Even weapons with fixed (as in, not variable) ATP will often show deviations by a few points of damage.

Did HUcast really gain much from BB? I feel like the new units (v101, v501, and Heavenly/Arms specifically) are extremely useful, but the ideal build doesn't seem to have changed much otherwise. Maybe Excalibur can fit in there somewhere, but it doesn't seem particularly useful when HUcast has access to Vjaya and Zanba. Yunchang also seems quite viable since it may be easier to find with significant hit than Zanba.
Click to expand...
From my understanding, it randomly picks one of the values between min ATP and max ATP and use that for the damage computation. Shifta will also increases max ATP (but not min ATP) if the weapon ATP is varied, making the variance even higher.

As for why there's variance even if a weapon is not varied in its ATP... I don't remember, I'll let someone else answer.

Unit-wise HUcast gets Smartlink, V502, and PoSS, which you didn't mention. Weapon-wise HUcast gets Yunchang, Excalibur, Jizai, Girasole, Daylight Scar, L&K38, Master Raven, the last three here are just listed for completion's sake. It's not that much a difference although some people like Yunchang better than Zanba due to its higher forward range, and as you said it's much easier to get decent ATA with it. Excalibur is fast and it could probably finish mobs faster than Vjaya in certain situations. Armor-wise HUcast gets Thirteen, which boosts DoB by quite a lot. Mag-wise HUcast gets Tellusis and Agastya/Yahoo.
 
Melirei said:
From my understanding, it randomly picks one of the values between min ATP and max ATP and use that for the damage computation. Shifta will also increases max ATP (but not min ATP) if the weapon ATP is varied, making the variance even higher.

As for why there's variance even if a weapon is not varied in its ATP... I don't remember, I'll let someone else answer.

Unit-wise HUcast gets Smartlink, V502, and PoSS, which you didn't mention. Weapon-wise HUcast gets Yunchang, Excalibur, Jizai, Girasole, Daylight Scar, L&K38, Master Raven, the last three here are just listed for completion's sake. It's not that much a difference although some people like Yunchang better than Zanba due to its higher forward range, and as you said it's much easier to get decent ATA with it. Excalibur is fast and it could probably finish mobs faster than Vjaya in certain situations. Armor-wise HUcast gets Thirteen, which boosts DoB by quite a lot. Mag-wise HUcast gets Tellusis and Agastya/Yahoo.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm aware of most of those exist, just don't quite see how they're significant improvements from GC, I suppose.

Jizai, Garisole, Daylight Scar, L&K38, and Master Raven seem inferior to the 80% hit M&A60 Vise I was using on GC. PoSS doesn't seem particularly useful since compatible weapons seem to be of limited use endgame. Thirteen is nice, but not particularly useful when combined with an 80% hit DoB. That said, I don't think 80% hit can drop from Gallon's Shop any more.

V502 is nice, but is using Hell on HUcast usually faster than doing absurd damage?
 
I mean, most people aren't in possession of 80h weapons other than a DF so your point is kind of moot; 60h DoB's draw a lot of attention at auctions as it is. Additionally, you're missing a couple points here. Jizai's main draw is unreduced Hell (though it is a reasonable substitute for BKB in terms of damage and accuracy). Add a V502 and PoSS and you have a great lizard killer/EP2 slayer. PoSS also benefits Excalibur making it much more accessible to HUcasts. Girasole is one of the most accessible ways to get your HP low for DF special if you're not packing a Lavis weapon/Blades (or Orotiagito if you just want to show off).

Generally speaking, Hell is still going to be faster in the cases that it's good for. Lizards still drop pretty quickly to Excalibur (and it's overall much more reliable than Zanba), but Hell J-Cutter, Raygun, and Jizai are your top tools for most of CCA and Seabed. Sinows are prone to warping on taking damage and their EVP is very high. Zeles are better taken out with Hell as are Morfos (high DFP and HP) though Zoas are mainly DPS'd down with a Freeze Trap.

The main draw overall is V502 and PoSS out of everything EP4 offers to HUcast since they're already stupidly broken. More reliable Arrest has lots of applications on its own right and having more effective options for Hell gives them better coverage where pure damage isn't always ideal. Jizai and Excalibur are the two best weapons that benefit from PoSS since their base ATA and ATP is great. Again, I'm somewhat in agreement that it's not a massive improvement but there's more than meets the eye here.
 
What is this Red-Bubbly-Spinning-Aura we get after killing Falzie?
I swear i never seen that before, in previous versions DC and GC.
 
It means somebody was using Dark Flow/Meteor/Bridge, so you can return to the Dark Falz arena to see Rico Tyrell appear after the fight. You'll see a blue aura when you defeat Olga Flow when somebody was using a "Red" weapon, which means you can go back to the arena to see Heathcliff Flowen appear after the fight. It also works in GC.
 
pantsaregood said:
Yeah, I'm aware of most of those exist, just don't quite see how they're significant improvements from GC, I suppose.

Jizai, Garisole, Daylight Scar, L&K38, and Master Raven seem inferior to the 80% hit M&A60 Vise I was using on GC. PoSS doesn't seem particularly useful since compatible weapons seem to be of limited use endgame. Thirteen is nice, but not particularly useful when combined with an 80% hit DoB. That said, I don't think 80% hit can drop from Gallon's Shop any more.

V502 is nice, but is using Hell on HUcast usually faster than doing absurd damage?
Click to expand...
Only 60% hit is available from Gallon's Shop on BB. I would agree that in that context Thirteen is not much of an improvement ATA-wise. It also boosts ATP by quite a bit though, giving DoB ATP close to the level of Baranz Launchers.

Vise is definitely the overall best, but these weapons have their merits. Whether or not they're worthwhile, I'll let you be the judge. Regarding Jizai, some people see it as Hell Swords, but I mostly look at it as a stronger S&Y. By all means it won't do as much damage as 80H Vise, but its higher accuracy allows it to hit high EVP targets more easily/reliably, and its ATP should allow it to CK well enough in many scenarios. On the other hand, if you can get DLS with insane hit, it will do significantly more damage than Vise. Musashi gets a boost from PoSS, essentially making it a weaker but more accessible Daylight Scar. It can deal at least as much damage as Jizai, provided the attacks hit. Girasole is basically a better Demolition Comet which also functions as a HP draining weapon. Vanilla BB doesn't allow getting hit% on it though, so it's mostly only good on Ephinea. All the weapons listed above have a slower full combo than Vise, that's a given. L&K38 is a weak ranged DF, which can CK certain things if it the attacks connect (which means it requires very high hit). Master Raven might have been good if getting hit on it is possible.

Smartlink is possibly the biggest boost all HU/FO got in BB, removing the ATA penalty for using ranged weapons. As a GC player maybe you'll already accustomed to glitching all your attacks though, but this allows more freedom in terms of the distance you stay from your targets, and it boosts attacks that cannot be glitched.

V101's +40% attack speed boost is pretty massive compared to God/Battle +20%.

Regarding V502, most players I know uses Hell in many scenarios where they would use DoB on GC, as the boost is pretty broken. I don't know whether or not it is optimal.

Something worth noting is that Zalure S-Ranks got a nerf in BB, it's only level 21 now.
 
Daylight Scar can outdamage Vise? I know the ATP difference is large, but it seems unlikely it could make up for the three extra hits from the Vise.

I suppose the extra ATP from Thirteen could be nice. I remember a max ATP HUcast being able to drop Ruins grunts in a single HSS combo, so I'm not sure the extra power is immediately useful.

Is God/Battle 20%? I always thought it was 30%.

I may look into a Daylight Scar with hit for use against high DFP enemies. There were a few situations (very few) where high ATP weapons (BKB in my case) would outdamage Vise.
 
Aleron Ives said:
It means somebody was using Dark Flow/Meteor/Bridge, so you can return to the Dark Falz arena to see Rico Tyrell appear after the fight. You'll see a blue aura when you defeat Olga Flow when somebody was using a "Red" weapon, which means you can go back to the arena to see Heathcliff Flowen appear after the fight. It also works in GC.
Click to expand...
Oh man thanks! Wasnt expecting such a detailed answer :D
Thats cool to know, many thanks!!
 
Does anyone know around what levels Sniper is available from the shop?
 
pantsaregood said:
Daylight Scar can outdamage Vise? I know the ATP difference is large, but it seems unlikely it could make up for the three extra hits from the Vise.

I suppose the extra ATP from Thirteen could be nice. I remember a max ATP HUcast being able to drop Ruins grunts in a single HSS combo, so I'm not sure the extra power is immediately useful.

Is God/Battle 20%? I always thought it was 30%.

I may look into a Daylight Scar with hit for use against high DFP enemies. There were a few situations (very few) where high ATP weapons (BKB in my case) would outdamage Vise.
Click to expand...
DLS can out-damage Vise in low ATP/high DFP scenarios as you said. With 30 SZ it might only be useful against a few enemies, whereas with 0 SZ it will always do more damage, and with SZ levels in between there's a cutting point. It's hard to get enough ATA on DLS though.

Battle unit speeds are 5%/10%/20%/40% for General/Devil/God/Heavenly. This has been timed and tested.
 
2 questions

1) At what level does megid start being good?
2) What's the best quest to unseal a limiter/lame with?
 
I don't have any specifics as far as effectiveness against certain levels of EDK, but Megid hits 90% power at Lv 25 which makes it okay and the extra 10% at 30 can be nice. The snarky answer is: never because its casting animation is too slow and is outclassed by V502 + any Hell weapon. There are occasions where piercing can make it fairly useful (ie. Lizards or big clusters of EDK-weak enemies), but outside of that it's only good if it's your only available option. Hell Raygun and Hell J-Cutter will get you much better mileage even on a FOmarl's poor ATA.

As for unsealing, Max Attack S first area is considered one of the best. It's 200 enemies a run and, when optimized, about 2 minutes and 35-50 seconds a run meaning it takes all of a few hours if even that.
 
Metaldude said:
I don't have any specifics as far as effectiveness against certain levels of EDK, but Megid hits 90% power at Lv 25 which makes it okay and the extra 10% at 30 can be nice. The snarky answer is: never because its casting animation is too slow and is outclassed by V502 + any Hell weapon. There are occasions where piercing can make it fairly useful (ie. Lizards or big clusters of EDK-weak enemies), but outside of that it's only good if it's your only available option. Hell Raygun and Hell J-Cutter will get you much better mileage even on a FOmarl's poor ATA.

As for unsealing, Max Attack S first area is considered one of the best. It's 200 enemies a run and, when optimized, about 2 minutes and 35-50 seconds a run meaning it takes all of a few hours if even that.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much!
 
Water said:
2 questions

1) At what level does megid start being good?
2) What's the best quest to unseal a limiter/lame with?
Click to expand...
1) High twenties, just try to get the highest leveled one which you do not find too costly. Here's the other side of the argument: While V502 Hell is OP, Megid may still be good in various scenarios:
  • Megid pierces (with the help of equipment). Although individual Megid's success rate is comparatively lower than V502 Hell in most cases, if there's enough enemies in a line, it may be worthwhile.
  • It does not have to pass ATA/EVP accuracy calculations
  • It does not require a distance check. For example Hell JC requires you to be in a specific distance window from the target, sometimes requiring repositioning. If you failed to connect with Hell JC multiple times, you would also often move out of the window. In some cases it may be worthwhile to just try Megid on the spot.
  • It does not require a hitbox for starting the cast. Like many techs, you can start the technique casting before the enemy hitbox appears. This potentially allows for spawn killing some enemies.
  • It has higher base power, which means it can kill certain high EDK enemies with better efficiency than V502 Hell. While it's hard to say if it's optimal, it's a valid strategy to try using megid on high EDK enemies in hope of occasional OHKO, if you don't have other higher priority tasks.
2) Aside from MAS E4 which doesn't cost meseta, there's Beyond the Horizon which is just as fast, but costs 10k meseta per run. What's good about it is that you can stand still and spam Gifoie to clear enemy waves, which requires less effort/attention compared to nuking MAS. Clear the first two areas then reset.
 
Is there a setting in Episode IV Max Attack S which prevents drops? I did a couple runs last night to start unsealing my limiters, and noticed there didn't seem to be any drops. It's not ult, so not worried I'm missing out on anything good, but it just seemed weird.
 
Rogue100 said:
Is there a setting in Episode IV Max Attack S which prevents drops? I did a couple runs last night to start unsealing my limiters, and noticed there didn't seem to be any drops. It's not ult, so not worried I'm missing out on anything good, but it just seemed weird.
Click to expand...
There are no item drops in MAS due to the high volume of enemies.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top