Hot take: FOnewearl should get bonuses to Ra- techs, too

Idk man ranged is better because shots don't require positioning (as much) to clean waves and mechguns just deal the highest damage in lots of instances, not just because of the range. In how many games sniping with Rifles is the way to go? Hunters use Slicers and Rangers use shots: multi target, the main instance in wich people is hidding behind boxes using single target at max range is Tower, and in Tower Foney Si Tech is normally worse than Bringer's R. Not only that GI/RA are a superior shot in everything but damage per target.

In solo Mountain/Seaside you can have some fun since the place is wide enough to pick up enemies before agroeing although it's pretty niche and probably Fomarl Grants is a better option.
 
The core issue really is that SI techs need to do about twice the damage they currently do to compete with the single target offerings of even the lowest ATP classes. And Gibarta needs to not just be a worse Barta. But such is PSO's balance.
 
I-frames said:
Idk man ranged is better because shots don't require positioning (as much) to clean waves and mechguns just deal the highest damage in lots of instances, not just because of the range. In how many games sniping with Rifles is the way to go? Hunters use Slicers and Rangers use shots: multi target, the main instance in wich people is hidding behind boxes using single target at max range is Tower, and in Tower Foney Si Tech is normally worse than Bringer's R. Not only that GI/RA are a superior shot in everything but damage per target.

In solo Mountain/Seaside you can have some fun since the place is wide enough to pick up enemies before agroeing although it's pretty niche and probably Fomarl Grants is a better option.
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Well the point of the prior discussion I believe you are commenting on was Barta vs. Rabarta, (Barta has more range meaning I can hit a pyro before someone else can rabarta it) which is basically only going to be a thing in 4x FO desert runs. In this instance bringers isn’t going to be used at all but of course this is a niche instance that I am discussing as it’s only about 1/16th of the game as I stated earlier.

You’re right in that most scenarios, bringers will be better, but in those areas you probably won’t have much more time than to SDZ before the next wave (in a party).

As for the other classes, yeah. You are generally going to benefit from using “ranged” in general (slicers HU, Shot RA) it’s not about what the “rangiest”. But I wasn’t talking about either of those classes lol. I was just mentioning that Simple techs have the use of targetting things far away. Adding to their viability in contrast to their supposed “trash” nature as advocated from other users. I am simply (lol) highlighting their perks. But yeah that doesn’t make them entirely meta or some shit, I’m literally just discussing them for the sake of discussing them.

But as I said before they have uses that are actually SOMEWHAT meta. That being:
  • Using Barta (as FOney) in 4x FO Desert runs specifically
  • Hitting falzy during invuln
  • Anytime there is literally a single enemy to target
  • Cheesing spawns from very far away/in another room (as you mentioned)
I appreciate your response

Fire AKA Drazn said:
The core issue really is that SI techs need to do about twice the damage they currently do to compete with the single target offerings of even the lowest ATP classes. And Gibarta needs to not just be a worse Barta. But such is PSO's balance.
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They already do about 1k when fully geared. They should do 2k or about half of what a fully sphered DF does you think? Lol

Yeah Gibarta is shit but remember that that tech gets a weapon that boosts it 50%, more than any other tech gets boosted from weapons. So I guess SEGA noticed and chose to purposefully add that to offset it. That being said you can probably slap really hard with it if you are fully geared around it but this is hardly ever done.

You’re right that you can probably use a better weapon for a single target such as a Demons mechgun, etc. but once again FOney excels at using that specifically which the subject of the thread is discussing FOney and her supposedly sucking. Also, if you ever take on anguish content anything demons goes out the window entirely making a simple tech being the very best way for her to deal raw damage (single target), within anguish specifically.
 
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I'm not well versed in the realms of Challenge mode but I seem to recall FOnewearl being the strongest Force option there. Everyone's got a niche!
I imagine Techs needed to be balanced in a way where even with the innate class boosts they can't be too strong, otherwise the meta would become 4 FOnewms spamming Gifoie, Rabarta, and Razonde at the center of a room killing everything in two seconds and moving on.

Giving the different Forces different boosts to different techs seems pretty goofy in hindsight, but the devs were probably desperate to give them something to stand out from each other otherwise the one with the highest MST would be the go-to pick every time.

I will die on the hill that while the game's balance is far from ideal, it's actually pretty great considering its age and the fact they could only patch it once every year or so by releasing a new version. The sad part is you don't really feel like it's balanced until you get to a freakishly high level, which is a major time commitment, especially considering you're going to be torturing yourself in Ultimate for the first 50 levels.
 
JackSalad said:
I'm not well versed in the realms of Challenge mode but I seem to recall FOnewearl being the strongest Force option there. Everyone's got a niche!
I imagine Techs needed to be balanced in a way where even with the innate class boosts they can't be too strong, otherwise the meta would become 4 FOnewms spamming Gifoie, Rabarta, and Razonde at the center of a room killing everything in two seconds and moving on.

Giving the different Forces different boosts to different techs seems pretty goofy in hindsight, but the devs were probably desperate to give them something to stand out from each other otherwise the one with the highest MST would be the go-to pick every time.

I will die on the hill that while the game's balance is far from ideal, it's actually pretty great considering its age and the fact they could only patch it once every year or so by releasing a new version. The sad part is you don't really feel like it's balanced until you get to a freakishly high level, which is a major time commitment, especially considering you're going to be torturing yourself in Ultimate for the first 50 levels.
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Its also worth a good consolation to know that although some classes are definitely better than others, its a bit of a blurry line as it can be highly based on what you have or can get gear-wise, and if you're not TAing or playing in established groups with people you know, that lines becomes even more blurry because things suddenly can become useful in pubplay.
That goes for weapons, but also classes. Even at endgame-gear, my general notion is that I prefer to play HUcl in pubs, and HUct when I play with groups I know well. That being said, sphering a Master Raven actually blurred THAT line too because its magnificent for HUct cleanup in pubs, but not so much when in established groups.

Personally, though I'm not versed in the class I think FOney is comfy in pubs, and doesn't seem as far off nuking wise to overshadow the comfy. Its nice to know that I can actually use Resta in heat rooms and reach you from "way over there" while still being in position to Gifoie. Needed? No. Appreciated? Yes. Appreciation gives a good feeling? Yes. Therefor, fun class.
 
We really need to change the narrative and stop saying certain things are "useless" when we really mean that something may not be the best choice for highly optimized play. Remember: highly optimized play almost never happens. There's maybe two or three serious groups of four players who play this game in a highly optimized manner. And oftentimes they burn out quickly and no longer enjoy pub play. (OFTENTIMES, not always.)

If you're in it for the long haul, your best bet for progressing your gear on PSO is to play the game A LOT. And having a character list / loadout that is good in less-than-perfect situations will provide you with more success than simply waiting for all of the stars to align.

So, although it is sad to find out a chosen class isn't what you thought it would be, I can tell you that in a pub setting, the overwhelming majority of 3/4 parties comprised of HUs and RAs would LOVE to see a high level FOney join that 4th slot. Don't lose heart.
 
Si tech is kinda useless if we consider PSOBB meta or TA stuffs. Either way, I think no need to change the tech bonus on fonwl since it could break ephinea's concept. This game is not balanced at all. However, as sodaboy said this game is pretty easy, so it's no problem at all and it's what PSO is. just choose any character and have fun as you want :)
 
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SirLagsAlot said:
They already do about 1k when fully geared. They should do 2k or about half of what a fully sphered DF does you think? Lol
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In a vacuum yes, however DF doesn't have enemies that resist 90% of its damage at all times. It also hits around 5 times a swing with correct positioning.

Its not that there aren't uses for all the techs, there are. Its just a matter of balance between what each of the classes offer, and SI techs are very niche so a boost to them is also niche compared to a boost to the much more used GI and RA techs. And if we are talking about top end DPS, SI techs are very much on the low side compared to the other busted stuff in PSO.

But this absolutely does not matter, like what Ade said earlier.

This only really matters if you want to be uber sweaty about it. FOs add so much to a party innately through them having roughly equal supporting potential with S/D/Z, so weirdly its actually a class where the other differences matter a lot less unless your doing something very specific; most any pub group will love a S/D/Z spammy Foney as much as any other FO, even if all they did after was spam Foie.

I would know since Foney is also my favourite FO and i am often doing exactly that, or the equivalent anyway :D
 
Fire AKA Drazn said:
In a vacuum yes, however DF doesn't have enemies that resist 90% of its damage at all times. It also hits around 5 times a swing with correct positioning.

Its not that there aren't uses for all the techs, there are. Its just a matter of balance between what each of the classes offer, and SI techs are very niche so a boost to them is also niche compared to a boost to the much more used GI and RA techs. And if we are talking about top end DPS, SI techs are very much on the low side compared to the other busted stuff in PSO.

But this absolutely does not matter, like what Ade said earlier.

This only really matters if you want to be uber sweaty about it. FOs add so much to a party innately through them having roughly equal supporting potential with S/D/Z, so weirdly its actually a class where the other differences matter a lot less unless your doing something very specific; most any pub group will love a S/D/Z spammy Foney as much as any other FO, even if all they did after was spam Foie.

I would know since Foney is also my favourite FO and i am often doing exactly that, or the equivalent anyway :D
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My 4k number was referring to all 5 hits hitting.

The Ra and Gi boosts you refer to culminate to only a 9% advantage of newm vs FOney, as I have said many times already. This is also usually forgone because the newm usually just casts barehanded instead of equipping pwand/magickal piece, as I have also mentioned many times already.

I feel like a broken record but Barta being viable LITERALLY is ONLY in 4x FO desert runs lmao. And of course, if you look at the PSOstats, lo and behold, no 4x FO stands on the leaderboard, I was never talking about RTA viability but really the entire point of the discussion is Newm being allegedly better. Which is true, he is 9% better while not have native pierce megid and less ATA to use demons mechs. And the fact most people just cast barehanded instead of equipping shit lol (how many more times will I have to say it??). This means a FOney usually is hitting bigger numbers.

She doesn’t even need a boost to Si techs. Even then she’s only 9% weaker. The Si techs do however have niche uses which I have listed over and over and even bullet pointed in my last comment. They are NOT without ANY use.

Seriously, try a 4x FO desert run and use Barta. ITS FUN. That should matter more than anything.
 
Techs are kinda mid so I don't really see the issue with those, her gifoie is good enough.

Foney has highest FO ata for hell/demons mechs & can fast cast with pwand. Those are some solid reasons to choose her
The big weakness of the class (to me) is that she doesn't have enough ATP to use s-rank jcutter, which forces me to play her differently than any other FO & really reduces the impact I can make in episode 2 >_ <
Her ATA huge tho so seems like a decent tradeoff, better hell rg & card usage.

None of the FOs really make sense to me as a "full-blown “mage” character", I'd MUCH rather help my party with demons & stuff on FO.

I don't think many of the in-game class descriptions are very accurate since the meta has evolved over the years
We have Discord and the wiki for up to date info on stuff like that. It doesn't really make sense to me to change the wording in-game.
 
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I don’t think foney needs help. Her nukes are quite strong and outside of totally organized play I strongly prefer her in e4 over fomar. If you’re carrying a pub in ep4 it’s far better to have good RA techs and ez resta over like, galatine and dob. The dmc patch also strongly favors her in these scenarios.

There is an aesthetically pleasing parity in how fonl plays as a limited fonewm, very similar to how racl and hucl play as handicapped versions of their male counterparts. It’s interesting to push the weaker classes to their limits and understand where they can compete with the meta classes, where they lag behind and the few places where they can actually excel.
 
If this were to be a permanent change then you would have to consider the limitations of other classes too. I feel like HUmars are probably one of the most limited classes in the game. Yet there are people who can actually play that class really well in spite of their weaknesses. So many times we want something that we think is good but then realize later on that the original design actually makes more sensee... at least where PSO is concerned. Many of us came from a server that had so many additions to certain classes, that we were playing a much more broken version of PSO than we realized at the time lol! I can't say it's the case with every game out there, but for PSO that's how it should be IMHO. Some things really are better left unchanged.
 
Change sets precedent for change and opens the floodgates for whimsy and petulance, much safer not to go there generally. That said, wouldn't mind humar getting level 20 JZ to be sure new players who default to swordboy are encourage to consider and use support, and spread the constant cast load in forceless parties. And maybe level 5 SD... less than a mag even gives going into a boss... and If racast has more atp than hucl then she should have more ata, already has hunter range penalty... and so on and so on
 
I guess in my mind, it seems like there would be a character dedicated SOLELY to techs, which would seemingly be fonewearl, definitively the strongest at pure casting ability, but lower stats elsewhere. Fomarl would be more defensive and supportive in nature, Fonewm with more ranged flexibility, and Fomar as the melee force. I’d nix the bonuses entirely, personally, and save those solely for gear.

I mostly just don’t like “invisible” bonuses, that you can’t possibly know exist just by playing naturally. And it feels like things are weighted SUPER heavily in the fonewms favor in almost any situation, since it seems like the few times you need a weapon, you’re going to be reliant on demons weapons anyways, where he gets the best option available (alongside fonewearl).

Not the end of the world obviously, just seems like the one instance the classes don’t seem super balanced within their given type.

That, and like I said, I would have probably have given Humar and Hunewearl Shifta and Deband, with Ramar and Ramarl getting Jellen and Zalure, simply because Hunters should have an easier time running between enemies, where Rangers already have the benefit of range, so maintaining a relatively permanent buff just seems even easier.
 
jcorb said:
I guess in my mind, it seems like there would be a character dedicated SOLELY to techs, which would seemingly be fonewearl, definitively the strongest at pure casting ability, but lower stats elsewhere. Fomarl would be more defensive and supportive in nature, Fonewm with more ranged flexibility, and Fomar as the melee force. I’d nix the bonuses entirely, personally, and save those solely for gear.

I mostly just don’t like “invisible” bonuses, that you can’t possibly know exist just by playing naturally. And it feels like things are weighted SUPER heavily in the fonewms favor in almost any situation, since it seems like the few times you need a weapon, you’re going to be reliant on demons weapons anyways, where he gets the best option available (alongside fonewearl).

Not the end of the world obviously, just seems like the one instance the classes don’t seem super balanced within their given type.

That, and like I said, I would have probably have given Humar and Hunewearl Shifta and Deband, with Ramar and Ramarl getting Jellen and Zalure, simply because Hunters should have an easier time running between enemies, where Rangers already have the benefit of range, so maintaining a relatively permanent buff just seems even easier.
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Well ultimately the game is going to remain how it has remained for the last 20 years, no major changes are ever going to occur to the classes lol.

HOWEVER, I do think SEGA did a good job to make each class unique and have something fun/interesting it can do.

FOney: Highest ATA = best demons/hell mechs and native pierce megid is FUN, Barta is FUN

FOnewm: Beeg number (dat 9% BRO!), can also use mechs

FOmarl: Shots! (And grants I guess LOL)

FOmar: Guardianna brah (and Galatine hue)

Every other class has fun stuff it can do too that makes it unique… they did a good job I think. You cannot go wrong picking any class in this game, it’s stupid easy and it becomes a competition to even land a hit at all in an endgame party outside of anguish.

If I was going to change anything though maybe I’d add the FORBIDDEN classes LMAO. Yep, HUmarl, HUnewm, RAnewm/newearl, FOcast (can only use weapons that use techs, gets boosted to tech lvl 35/or w/e to make them stronger than newm techs slightly xD)
 
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Blue (Azul or Aoi-(青)) said:
I picked HUnewearl because the class description made her sound like she was good at multiple things.


She sucks lol
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Not at high level but it's more like a good support char.
To my opinion, Foney dont need to be changed. At high levl and with good stuff (demon etc) they are really efficient. Adding more is not a good idea to me.

Take care
 
Blue (Azul or Aoi-(青)) said:
She sucks lol
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Well yeah she kind of does buuuuuuuuttt….

She does have things she can do that no other class can making her unique.

She can swing the second highest Flowens Sword with more ATA (meaning you need less hit)

She can ghetto-fo AND equip Clio! Of course RAmarl does this too but just those two can ghetto fo properly Omg equipping Clio is non-vanilla hecking delet it NOW!

She gets her very own exclusive Uber with a sacrificial special (that’s like, impossible to acquire due to its drop rate and where). Nei’s Claw

She can also swing the hardest hitting Tyrells/Madams Parasol in the game.

Overall like all other classes SEGA did an OK job at making her unique and have stuff that makes her feel different to play. So while sucking pretty hard she can do some stuff still so in that way you will feel redeemed playing her at the ENDIEST game levels (like any other character class in this game)
 
Oh I got notified this topic is still going?

Blue (Azul or Aoi-(青)) said:
I picked HUnewearl because the class description made her sound like she was good at multiple things.


She sucks lol
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I believe you are mistaken - while infamously painful to level, HUnewearl is the second best normal mode HU because she has a place in the meta as a class with access to both weapons like Vjaya & Dark Flow as well as good enough support capabilities.

She's also a class that dirty perverts also pick for entirely unrelated reasons to the description.

SirLagsAlot said:
She can swing the second highest Flowens Sword with more ATA (meaning you need less hit)
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I'm confused, since assuming you're thinking of the 3084 model the ATA difference is not only 1 - which doesn't seem to matter much for hit hunts - it's also skewed in the other direction:

HUmar ATA at cap: 200
HUnewearl ATA at cap: 199
 
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