FO Gifoie Reference

[Metaldude]

Eh, you aren't doing tech damage on EP2 to begin with. Not where it matters at least. EP4 is the one episode where tech damage is very significant and that's only because everything is allergic to Gifoie.


(though worth mentioning it still has good use in EP1)

 

[anime]

30 SDJZ is a huuuuuge difference from 20
so yeah, it's a very good argument n.n

 

[Rune]

that's like the only good argument forces have left if you don't wanna use damage techs on them x3
@30SDJZ thing

level 30 sz and then dj for the most part are the best things in the game though (traps just eat your heart out lol). The difference they make from 20 is quite a very large amount.
-1.125x base is shifta 3, lasts 1 minute
-1.281x base is shifta 15, lasts 3 minutes
-1.346x base is 20, lasts 3 minutes and 50 seconds
-1.476x base is shifta 30, lasts 5 minutes and 30 seconds

Shifta 30 alone makes Hucast pack 2419 atp, 20 is 2206. What turns out to be 42 extra damage from 30 might not seem like much but keep in mind that that is before charge, spirit, zerk or hard hits are put in and multiplying that 42 damage (charge and so on is 3.32x or so. 42 x 3.32 = true damage difference of 20 vs 30). Zalure 30 besides having more range is adding even more 40-80 or so of a difference between level 20.

To give another example:
Solo wise, not factoring in twins and zalure s-ranks and just going off what each character has naturally you can see some interesting things if you play solo a lot like I do. By solo I mean 1 character and that 1 character not having a PB which can take a bit to build up anyway and no 60 pd investment into a s-rank weapon that alone really is not worth it compared to even just simply 15 j/z just cause it can only hit a few vs natural j/z even if it is 21 z.

So with these limits in mind attack damage wise Fomar with his level 30 techs can reach a higher base damage output with his physical attacks when using the same weapon than every other class other than Hunewearl (and she doesn't beat him by much). Granted this isn't set in stone when compared to things like vol opt 2 and gol dragon (who are immune to zalure but Fomar still wreaks both of those) and other things that just have low defense in general so zalure isn't cutting as much of a chunk off (but everything in ultimate is pretty much packing tons of defense so this isn't much of an issue). Granted twins and s-ranks can help a lot of characters out but still. Level 30 j/z is a bit easier to work with than dealing with PB and s-ranks zalure stuff.

Though I guess I can throw some techs a bone:
-Gifoie stacking and Gizonde striking every part of a foe really do some crazy good damage on some things (gizonde pretty much destroys the dragon boss before he can take off and go underground if you can't kill it at a low level with attacks and gizonde does strike every part of girtablulu as well for example if you don't want to get near it or are trapped in a suck).
-Grants/zonde can be used safely from behind rocks and stuff and cover a full room
-Rabarta, Razonde, and Rafoie can just stun lock a lot of foes with Rabarta, and Razonde covering medium sized rooms in range (compared to level 20 they have great aoe range).

 

[Varista]

I mean I literally said SDJZ is the best argument for using a Force that Forces have if players dont like to spam techniques on a class that is created to spam techs on.

 

[Metaldude]

I think you're discounting FOmar and FOmarl's non-tech spam abilities a lot. There's a reason why FOney is arguably the worst character after 4PB S/D 81 is applied: tech damage becomes insignificant and she has the least amount of support tools to stand on next to peers within her class (besides S-Rank Demons Mechs, which decrease in usefulness as the party grows stronger). Her only usefulness is in fact derived from being just a J/Z bot at that point. FOmar has solid base ATP to work with and FOmarl's unorthodox kit gives her incredible strength in the form of Vivienne and Rambling May. FOnewm has enough points in the right stats to be of some use outside of tech spam (and he's arguably the best tech spammer in the class!).

This goes without saying that 81 S/D isn't always the given situation. But EP2 also places a huge barrier over tech spam in that the most dangerous enemies are typically very resistant or simply behaviorally intolerant of tech spam (ie. Sinows and Deldepths). This is why there are mag builds for FOnewm that give him EP2 options where tech spam is nearly invalid. EP1 enemy resistances are also set up in a way that each variant of the same chaser is specifically vulnerable to one element and none of the others, making it somewhat impractical to tech spam apart from specific areas (like Mines) and beefier enemies are generally resistant to all elements. In some fashion or another, you have to have an answer to those situations that doesn't lean on tech spam.