Character Tier List?

How do you calculate ~1143 barehand damage from 2420 ATP for the comparison? I'm curious.
Also the Shifta duration formula means level 3 Shifta is 60 seconds duration?
The damage calculation used the version 2 damage found on pso-world, I didn't take that part from blue burst. It's assuming the damage formula hasn't changed between versions (I'm not sure why they would change this). It's calculated using hard attacks averaging a critical hit every 2 attacks (That doesn't necessarily mean it's what a player is going to use everytime). All damage assumed the target has no def so it's not very realistic, you could probably get closer to this by going normal forest although the damage difference should remain and make it even more relevant on higher def enemies.

The shifta formulas were picked up directly from the game client so yeah shifta level 3 should normally last 60 seconds for blue burst. As Aleron Ives stated, the formulas for these spells changed between versions. I'm not sure how things changed, but my old level 80 hunewearl in v2 dealt over 2k damage per hit in very hard using a basic charge weapon with 50% damage and shifta level 15 (not using zalure) which basically insta killed the mobs. I believe the % damage increase worked differently as well. I doubt you could do this easily on bb, I could be wrong, but shifta has always been too overpowered imo.

Shifta and percentages are nerfed as well, so that doesn't help matters, either. The V2 formula alows Shifta to affect your entire raw ATP (base + weapon + grind), and percentages affect everything (base, weapon, grind, Shifta), meaning that any class can outdamage (or at least match) a particular HUcast if they use a weapon strong enough to make their total ATP higher than his (assuming he's using a weapon worse than yours). With the V3 Shifta formula, it doesn't really matter what weapons anybody uses, because Shifta gives HUcast way more ATP than it gives anybody else.

The V2 formula appears to work like so:

(base ATP + weapon ATP + grind ATP) * Shifta % = visible ATP
visible ATP * weapon % = final ATP

Not only does doing it this way decrease the importance of who has the most base ATP, but it also decreases the importance of how much ATP your weapon has, so you don't have the problem of "any % except Hit is useless on a Mechgun, because its base ATP is trash" like you do on V3 and V4.

Of course in order for this system to work, you need much more powerful enemies than the ones Sega created for V3, so that they can withstand the damage you can do with a 50% weapon under the influence of Shifta, which means that while Techniques are highly valued in this system, androids are also trash for soloing, because they can't do any damage.

tl;dr

Sega sucks at balance.
I think I've read somewhere they used 0.5*TECHLEVEL rather than 1.3*TECHLEVEL in v2 since the weapon atp was added to the formula. I believe v2 formula was better in this aspect because it didn't make such a difference between classes however the atp difference is still outstanding. If the shifta spell was slightly nerfed from v2 and spellcasters/hybrids had a higher atp curve to offset shifta nerf, I think that would balance things out (and/or do the opposite and slightly nerf high atp classes to balance things out so the game doesn't become too easy)... Assuming other buffs/debuffs would be nerfed and the resists would be adjusted so attack spells are actually more useful in ultimate mode (Think offline/solo mode resistances and edit from there). About the % addon to damage, I think it's preferable it would stay like BB especially since people now have a way to add % to weapons whereas there was previously no legit way to obtain weapons with 100% attributes. High enemy def was a pain in v2 when being a level 200 racast would still mean hitting for 0 damage in ruins without those buffs/debuffs. I don't think it was a solution, the goal is to minimize the impact of buffs/debuffs and not the opposite. To balance things out, you need to make spellcasters shine in other areas since you don't want them to become completely irrelevant by downgrading their only beneficial part. There are other parts such as the falling on the ground gimmick being removed would actually make the defensive stats worthwhile. What do you think would be the best way to fix those issues?
 
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When damage cancel gets removed, this list will have to be revisited. I imagine RAcast will clearly beat HUcast in most scenarios. HUcast's previous superiority, which I think was more perceived than real, was due to single target precision to minimize damage cancel. Without that, 3 high hit Charge Arms + FO (assuming we're not allowing PBs at the beginning of the quest) is going to dominate any wave that doesn't have lizards.

There will also be some Episode 4 scenarios where 4x FOnewm will be unbeatable.
 
When damage cancel gets removed, this list will have to be revisited. I imagine RAcast will clearly beat HUcast in most scenarios. HUcast's previous superiority, which I think was more perceived than real, was due to single target precision to minimize damage cancel. Without that, 3 high hit Charge Arms + FO (assuming we're not allowing PBs at the beginning of the quest) is going to dominate any wave that doesn't have lizards.

There will also be some Episode 4 scenarios where 4x FOnewm will be unbeatable.
4way pb 4 hucast best party
 
Why are so many people putting FOney over FOmar?

From my experience, she is way more limited than him. His ATA aren't a problem.

Im soloing, she is probably better due to better RA techs, but in multimode FOmar seems far superior.

Then again, I am duoing a lot and FOmar is better there than FOney, so maybe my perception is skewed.
 
Lol most of the current community has come from custom content servers where Fonl isn't as limited, so that's a potential factor even if not the exact reason. That and, like you said it's a lotta peoples kawaii uguu~ solo class, they don't give FOmar a chance, or even some of them fomarl. Especially since the latter 2 are harder to equip.
 
Fony is faceroll and there's no more than 2 good FOmars on the server.

They shine with some non standard equips and rely on SNS using things other than slicers, but most spam cmech DMC everyone else and get hated for it.

Foml same issue and useless techs, but maiwaifu so less hate.
 
Here's my character tier list:

A: HUcast, RAcast, FOmarl
B: HUcaseal, HUnewearl, RAmar, FOnewearl
C: RAmarl, RAcaseal, FOmar, FOnewm
D: HUmar

All my opinion but I think it's very accurate. Although it takes a lot of things into account, and if you only play solo or only play with 4 players then it'd need adjustments.
 
Here's my character tier list:

A: HUcast, RAcast, FOmarl
B: HUcaseal, HUnewearl, RAmar, FOnewearl
C: RAmarl, RAcaseal, FOmar, FOnewm
D: HUmar

All my opinion but I think it's very accurate. Although it takes a lot of things into account, and if you only play solo or only play with 4 players then it'd need adjustments.
fomar is best since with level 30 gif he has same amount of casts as fonewm, and he has higher single target dps
 
Why are so many people putting FOney over FOmar?

From my experience, she is way more limited than him. His ATA aren't a problem.

Im soloing, she is probably better due to better RA techs, but in multimode FOmar seems far superior.

Then again, I am duoing a lot and FOmar is better there than FOney, so maybe my perception is skewed.

Fomar is my favorite class. And personally I think he is the best overall character potential wise in the game as well overall. Thing is he needs tons of real expensive gear to really shine and reach that potential.
 
FOmar is definitely the best FO in Episode 1 (granted you have decent gear). He loses to FOmarl in Ep2 and FOnewm in Ep4 though.
FOney is a jack of all trades master of none char, except for maybe tower (ATA for Demon Mechs/ Bringers)
 
Yeah I guess maybe FOmar might be eventually potentially one of the best, but I've never played level 160+ or with super great equipment so he seems kinda weak to me. You might as well just zalure all the enemies and your teammates finish them off before you even get a chance to attack anyways.

Edit: But FOmarl will always be my preferred FO (except in the Gamecube days). I feel like the rest of the team does so much damage that your damage as a FO is kinda irrelevant. It's mostly about the support spells and not dying, and she's the best FO at both. Sure maybe FOmar is better for farming weak enemies with his higher damage, but FOmarl is best at ensuring your party wins at that difficult quest. I think the difference of opinions is just that. FOmar is better when you're stronger than the enemies and FOmarl is better when you're weaker than them.
 
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To be fair resta range is a easy fix to work around for those that want a Fomar to use it as the main plus Fomarl has (well that and Tyrell's Parasol and Rambling May. Vivi isn't much beyond just a bunch of nice 30% hits around there I mean personally I'd rather have a uber Girasole than Vivi just cause of those extra uses it has) and some people don't want to be tagged by resta anyway as well (such as if they are trying to DF or abuse mag invulnerability triggers or they just seem like they might be just great big bitches).

But yeah it is by far easier to live as a Fomarl than Fomar for when you are weaker than the foes just cause of her being the Team Mom and packing lots of HP and Def for early times).
 
I love them all tbh but here's my list:

N-mode:
S: HUcast.
A: RAcast, HUmar, RAmar, FOnewm, HUcaseal.
B: RAmarl, FOmarl, FOmar, HUnewearl.
C: FOnewearl.
D: RAcaseal.

C-mode:
S: HUcast.
A: HUcaseal, FOnewearl.
B: FOnewm, FOmar, HUmar.
C: RAmar, RAcast.
D: RAmarl, RAcaseal, HUnewearl, FOmarl.
 
Solo:

HU: Hucast

RA: Racast

FO: Fonewm

Hucast are great for solo, I do personally like Hucaseal for solo too especially since they can crit more with their high ata, but when it comes to stuff like using charge/berserk weps they're higher def and atp makes them easier to solo with. That's about the same reason why I chose Racast although Ramar would be my second choice. I like Fonewm for solo, tbh I haven't played much fo on Ephinea, but I personally like them because of their barehanded speed when using RA techs.

Another thing is that these classes really don't require alot of gear to make them great.

Team:

HU: HUmar

RA: Ramar

FO: Fonewearl

I guess the reason I chose Humar is because I have more fun playing as one in a team. Honestly humar's aren't that easy to play with because of their low lvl techs and other weaknesses, but if I had to play a HU in a team I would rather use Humar. Ramar's are awesome in a team, they make short work of enemies with demon's special, and can lead a party rather well. I guess I like Fonewearl the most in a team cause their class is mainly based on support and quicker single enemy drops with their boost in SI techs.
 
Waifu Overlord Tier - HUnewearl, FOmarl, FOnewearl, RAcaseal

Badass Overlord Tier - FOmar, HUcaseal, RAmar, RAmarl

Lower then a Netherworld Prinny Tier - FOnewm, HUcast, HUmar, RAcast
 
Waifu Overlord Tier - HUnewearl, FOmarl, FOnewearl, RAcaseal

Badass Overlord Tier - FOmar, HUcaseal, RAmar, RAmarl

Lower then a Netherworld Prinny Tier - FOnewm, HUcast, HUmar, RAcast

trash list, hucassy not even s-tier waifu?
 
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Meh, Fomar is great for solo and multi play, I run through the planet killing things quite freely using the age old strat of duck n cover in and out of rooms if needed but I also sort of just rip apart the planet with my modest set up in general.
 
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