S-rank price fixing.

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I'm actually not sure if 20 PDs is really that much.

I don't play all that much (I'm usually just lobbying, maybe an hour or two a day, unless it's Challenge), but I have 4 spec'd S-Ranks, I made myself a Magical Piece through PDs, spent around 60 PDs or so on Team Points, along with a lot of various PDs to buy certain items (materials, grinders, gear, whatever).

20 PDs isn't exactly a little, but I personally believe you're overestimating the value of a PD.
 
Ade said:
Also, let's not get too hung up on the price itself. Remember this is also the result of price-fixing, which has been a historically douchey activity
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A small group have decided to set their price at a certain price. Nothing has been forced upon anyone else. Is this not the same as every trade thread? You set the price you want, whether it sell or not is different. If it seemed unfair business will die and people will get their own sranks. But they are still being sold because people feel the current price is still worth paying for.
 
I'm certain that people are less happy with the new price, and each Cmoder should have the right to set his own price. My understanding is that this cartel will oust any member who refuses to charge the cartel's agreed upon price, which is anti-competitive.

If this is wrong, then one of you cartel members should see this as an opportunity to undercut your peers.
 
Jesus christ why is this still even a topic. Everyone's gonna choose their own selling/buying price. Theres no governing body because their shouldn't be...beacuse its a fucking 16 year old game. Deal with it or go back to kindergarten and share all your crayons with everyone else instead.
 
Why would you and your friends price fix in the first place? Is is "greed" to right a wrong?

And before you debate me on whether price-fixing is right or wrong, do your homework on its impact.
 
@Girth: You're not making a counter-point about anything. You're just expressing distaste for the topic, which adds nothing to it. Let's keep this topic focused on actually debating the point at hand. If you don't want to, then get out. I personally find economic topics to be interesting and worth exploring, so you can take your judgments elsewhere.
 
And I can't believe you made a topic over this petty crap. Nothing ever changes with an addiction to conflict. I hope this gets locked.
 
If you actually read the post, you would see that nobody started insulting anyone else until you showed up here. I implore the Admins not to lock this topic just because one person decided to go off-topic.

Also, I noticed that none of the cartel members have stepped up to counter my point about refusing to play with individual members who want to charge a lower price. Care to address that? (If I am correct, it further exposes the unethical practice.)

Furthermore, I don't ever expect a thread like this to be won "within the thread." No Cmoders are going to read this and say, "Yes, Ade. You are right. We will change." Also, no buyers are going to read this and say, "Yes, Ade. You are right. We will stop paying that price."

The win happens later when people remember what was said here and act upon it.

For example, back when cheating was widely accepted on PSO GC, a lot of people hated me for arguing against it. Nobody ever approached me years later and credited me with changing people's minds about cheating in online games. (Remember, it was a huge shift in thought to understand cheating in an online game versus an offline game, and it took years for distinction to develop in people's minds.) However, I know I was agent of this change, among many others. If you read all of those threads, I appear to have "lost" the arguments due to personal attacks and insults made by others; people simply don't know how to argue properly, but look at the situation of online gaming now versus 15 years ago: Most people hate cheating and have a much better understanding of its impact. I know I made a difference in spite of my unpopularity for forcing people to think, and I make no apologies for examining topics and discussing them.
 
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Do we refuse to play with individual members? Last I checked we're playing with lots of people.

In fact, we sometimes have issues playing with each other, just ask Spuz. ;) (get a better schedule ok)

Also Ade, the issue here is you're acting like you're an authority on this subject and everything you say is gospel. Definitely not the truth.
 
Sometimes a topic requires more than one sentence to discuss.

"Do we refuse to play with individual members? Last I checked we're playing with lots of people."

This isn't what I asked. The consistent group of Cmoders have agreed to 20 PDs, and it's my understanding that if one of those members wants to stop charging 20 PDs and lower the price, that you will discontinue assisting them with Cmode. Is this correct or not? Answer the actual question.

If my understanding of this is wrong, then I'll lay this part of the topic to rest. However, that does not change the validity of the other points about price fixing.
 
I missed that post but no, but we all agreed that 10PDs wasn't worth it (we didn't even have to persuade each other), so I highly doubt that's going to happen anyway.

Honestly though Ade, Girth is right, if you think we're being "cunts" and doing "bad tactics" or whatever, do something to change it with actions, not words.
 
Okay, so if one of you decided to start charging say, 15 PDs, you wouldn't oust them from your roster?

Again, I don't mean to be accusatory in a wrongful manner. This is secondhand information I received and is pertinent.
 
if you want lower prices, get three other people, play cmode, and sell s-ranks for lower

gg ez
 
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Yes, but that doesn't answer my question. If one of the CARTEL members decided they wanted to charge a lower price, would the rest of the CARTEL members stop playing with that person? (If so, then it truly is a cartel.)

This is really a simple question.

"Honestly though Ade, Girth is right, if you think we're being "cunts" and doing "bad tactics" or whatever, do something to change it with actions, not words."

Pointing out an activity that one sees as unethical is an ACTION that requires WORDS. I'm educating the public, as your group seems to be dis-proportionally benefiting from the lack of good information about this matter.
 
@Ade Cmoders dont need to carry trash players like you if they don't feel like it. Going off your posts since the other server, you seem like the type of person who whines about situations and never does anything about them. You can't force players to play with you if they don't want to. This isn't kindergarten.

Solution? Gather your friends, learn cmode, and start undercutting people.


Also, @Zen I see undercutting friends as a slight form of trolling, i enjoyed it when i did it. "Oh Nate or Matt have sales pending? Let me offer to make sranks cheaper" LOOOOL
 
this isn't a cartel because the "cartel" you're talking about doesn't control all of the s-rank supply

there's actually a way for you to get infinite s-ranks... some people who are more efficient at making them all decided that they want to sell them for a higher price, that's not a cartel. if you want s-ranks to sell for 12 PDs, spend a few hours getting one and sell it for 12 PDs

Ade said:
Instead of letting the price set itself naturally through transactions, a small group has decided to not charge below a certain point. This always leads to a price that is higher than the demand. It's up to YOU as a consumer to recognize this so it's stopped.
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this is actually a stellar point, and it works even BETTER on this server since the economy is so small. if an s-rank truly isn't worth 20 PDs, then nobody is going to pay 20 PDs for one. if the price point's being set too high, people will just get into c-mode and make an s-rank themselves... it's not up to you alone to decide that the price is too high and then claim that everyone else has a duty to "recognize" that your opinion is correct

(disclaimer: i have never bought or sold an s-rank and i'm garbage at c-mode)
 
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